PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by paulvk » Fri, 08 Feb 2019, 07:13

daimyo wrote:
Fri, 08 Feb 2019, 06:20

Have you consider water cooling? :D

I have no problem with overheating because I have 3 PIPs (12kVA total) and only 5.3kVA PV installed so they do not work in full power mode. :)
I have two PIPs in parallel so 8kVa and only get to 50% load I designed the system to run at no more than 50% normally 20% to 30%
but even at low load the temperatures can go to 50c
I have 8% load now air temp is 28c the PIP temp is 36c
I do not like running heatsinks at temperatures higher than I can touch them
when the heatsink gets to 50c the semiconductor could be approaching over 150c
the lower the junction temperature the longer they last
The capacitors are close to the heatsinks and are heated by them they suffer most from the heat
Here in Sydney the temperature can get to over 40c (41c recently)
the heatsinks in a PIP would be above 50c under those conditions

I thought about placing a copper bar between the fets and heatsink but this involves to much work
I have used this method in my own power projects and it has made a huge difference to the ouput devices temperature
reducing them as much as 10 to 15 deg c

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by josse » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 02:32

Hello everybody,

First of all Thank You for this thread and your work on firmware.

I have 2x Axpert MKS-4k it is MPP PIP-4048MS, one of them was in basement where was fire last year, I did clean UP, everything looks OK. Afected by high oxidation is only alumina parts like heatsinks. Tin, coat, plastic parts looks OK. Mainboard of inverter works OK. Inverter worked in first few minutes of fire, but without SCC, it was in night!, fans circulates smoke through inverter...

I have problem with SCC (I think I have newer version of SCC). It detects PV voltage, Power UP mainboard through CN2 (2-pin cable from SCC to Main), but no comunication over CN4 (4-pin cable). It looks that comunication from Main-CPU to SCC-CPU going through optocouplers U6, U7, U4 (they works OK), but no answer from SCC-CPU U5 to Main-CPU. Over LCD or USB/Serial no SCC visible, no SCC firmware version, no SCC_Voltage, no PV_Voltage. Do not consume any current (somethink like 7 mA/110 V is there, it looks like voltage deviders)

Do you have some suggestion? Do you have more parts of Schema? Before I'll remove most of water proof coat, I want to try everything possible. What type of CPU is U5?

Relays RY1 and RY2 should switch on before SCC-CPU comunicate or ofter? is BAT+ - BAT- voltage necesary for testing out of inverter? Could I try to comunicate with SCC-CPU from computer?

What is Pin placement on CN1? (ICSP??)

I have no idea what should be wrong, maybe some conductive soot between some wires which are not coated. There is only few uncoated wires... Coating looks really good.

Thank you for any suggestion.

Josef Krieglstein
Image
From https://josseowncloud.trenet.org/index. ... PTqkYbeC0R .

Image
From https://josseowncloud.trenet.org/index. ... 2mhCAFjvic .

[ Edited Coulomb: fixed image links. Edit2: retaining original links. ]

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 09:47

josse wrote:
Wed, 13 Mar 2019, 02:32

Do you have some suggestion? Do you have more parts of Schema? Before I'll remove most of water proof coat, I want to try everything possible. What type of CPU is U5?
You seem to have gone about as far as you can go. The processor is some type of Freescale 8-bit HCS08 microcontroller, but you'll need the bootstrap loader in there in order to be able to load the main firmware. I don't know of anyone with the know-how to do that.
Relays RY1 and RY2 should switch on before SCC-CPU comunicate or ofter?
No, I'd expect those to stay off till the handshaking is complete, and it's ready to actually charge the battery.
is BAT+ - BAT- voltage necesary for testing out of inverter?
For the inverter, yes. For the Solar Charge Controller, it will probably at least do something without a battery attached, like answer the commands from the main DSP.
Could I try to comunicate with SCC-CPU from computer?
You could try if you're really keen. You'd have to duplicate our sniffing hardware in this post; for that you'll need some way to activate a phototransistor from the RS-232 port, and connect a phototransistor to the RS232 input. We used Industrial (i.e. plastic) Fibre Optic connectors; you could maybe use something else, but make sure it's isolated. You could attempt to replicate the dialogue that we captured in that post. You'll have to figure out what the graphics characters are for the CRC characters. It's the same CRC as used for commands; see the index for details. It seems a lot of work.

I think your best bet is to try and purchase a replacement SCC board from your supplier. Spare boards might even be available from Ebay. Sorry, I can't find a link now, and don't recall where I saw spare boards.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by andys » Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 06:07

Went to use my classic PIP-4048MS yesterday and the AC output was no longer working. It is still charging fine off solar.

The on/off switch on the bottom makes it power up and I can hear the odd relay click, but there's no AC output and it turns off again after a minute.

There's no error displayed, no fault LED, it simply fails to turn on the AC output and fails to indicate output is turned on - shows 0V 0Hz output on the display.

:?

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 08:54

andys wrote:
Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 06:07
The on/off switch on the bottom makes it power up and I can hear the odd relay click, but there's no AC output and it turns off again after a minute.
The on/off switch has two electrical functions. One is to turn on the power supply via a capacitor; that part seems to be working. The other part is to provide a digital signal to the Digital Signals Processor (DSP) via opto-coupler U8 on the main board. It's acting as if this part isn't working, so it appears to the DSP that the switch is off all the time. If there is no source of charge power (AC-in or PV), the with the switch appearing to be off, the DSP will send a signal to the power supply to turn itself off after some 20 seconds.

The on/off signal gets to the DSP on the control (daughter) board via a 48-pin connector. Perhaps remove the control board (there are two screws holding it in place), perhaps spray with a non-residue cleaner like CRC or swab with methylated spirits and replace the control board. It looks like the on/off switch signal is near the pin 16 end. That may overcome some oxidation of the pin or socket involved.

[ Edit: added link to post with partial schematic trace of the main power supply. ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by andys » Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 15:06

coulomb wrote:
Mon, 25 Mar 2019, 08:54
The on/off switch has two electrical functions. One is to turn on the power supply via a capacitor; that part seems to be working. The other part is to provide a digital signal to the Digital Signals Processor (DSP) via opto-coupler U8 on the main board. It's acting as if this part isn't working, so it appears to the DSP that the switch is off all the time. If there is no source of charge power (AC-in or PV), the with the switch appearing to be off, the DSP will send a signal to the power supply to turn itself off after some 20 seconds.
Thanks very much, that is super helpful!

Before opening it up, I decided to try AC input with the generator, and this somehow "woke" it up, after disconnecting the generator, suddenly the inverter was working again. Turned it off and on several times and it stayed working. This is starting to suggest a stuck relay or, like you said, something getting a bit rusty inside, I will definitely open it up if it happens again.

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Walde » Sat, 18 May 2019, 00:50

PIP Inverter Error "error 09" bus soft start failed

Solar SM 5kw 48vdc = EASUN POWER 5000W Solar Inverter 80A MPPT Off Grid Inverter 48V 220V Hybrid Inverter Pure Sine Wave Inverter 60A Battery Charger

Type 2018

Maybe one of you can help me.

On the motherboard, a diode is apparently defective.
Designation on the diode is only GFZ without manufacturer and without values. The mounting space is labeled TVS.

The board is the new model (with the ID 16-500558-02G)
Inverter 5kva / 48v

Image
Image





Thanks in advance to all who help me

Greetings Dirk

Please, please, please
Thank you thank you thank you

[ Edited Coulomb: replaced [image=] tags with [img] or [image=640]. Also fixed image URL where required. Use browser "show image" or "show image in new tab" option to zoom into the last three images. ]

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by weber » Sat, 18 May 2019, 08:07

It's an SMCJ51A, a 51 volt unidirectional transient voltage suppressor (TVS) in an SMC package. Datasheet here:
https://www.diodes.com/assets/Datasheets/ds19003.pdf
It is likely to be available from many suppliers, such as Element14, Digikey, Mouser and RS Components.

Since that TVS has failed, it's possible that the MOSFET it was protecting has also failed, and possibly other MOSFETs and their driver components.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by coulomb » Sat, 18 May 2019, 08:23

Walde wrote:
Sat, 18 May 2019, 00:50
PIP Inverter Error "error 09" bus soft start failed
Hi, Dirk. Fault code 09 is the dreaded one. It often indicates a lot of damaged components. But you may be lucky with this one.
Solar SM 5kw 48vdc = EASUN POWER 5000W Solar Inverter 80A MPPT Off Grid Inverter 48V 220V Hybrid Inverter Pure Sine Wave Inverter 60A Battery Charger
Type 2018
Thanks for the very full model description. It's so infuriating when people say that they have an "Axpert 5kVA", which could mean about a dozen different models.
On the motherboard, a diode is apparently defective.
Designation on the diode is only GFZ without manufacturer and without values. The mounting space is labeled TVS.
That's a special kind of diode called a Transient Voltage Suppressor.. It's something like a high powered zener diode. Also, "GFZ" is the SMD (Surface Mount Device) code; it's a small code, usually 2 or 3 alphanumeric characters, which represents a compact code leading to the actual part number, which is so long it would not fit legibly on most SMD parts. I Googled "SMD code "GFZ"" (without the outer quotes), and it led to this:

https://www.vishay.com/docs/88394/smcj.pdf

Search in that PDF for "GFZ" without the quotes to find the one you have now. The minimum voltage that these start conducting at seems to be 56.7 V, so presumably it's across the battery-side full bridge MOSFETs. That voltage seems a little low, so maybe that's the reason it got hot and eventually blew, and maybe the replacement should be slightly higher voltage. However, its "maximum clamping voltage" is 82.4 V, presumably protecting an 80 V rated part. Find a replacement at the usual on-line suppliers: RS Online (free delivery even for small orders), Digi-Key, Element-14/Farnell/Newark, Mouser, etc. Perhaps buy a few (there may be a minimum order quantity), and perhaps order a few different voltages to experiment with. If you replace it with a slightly higher voltage version, perhaps replace the other three as well. They may also be getting hot at higher battery voltages. You don't want to go too high in voltage, or the protection will be useless.

[ Edit: "across the battery" → "across the battery-side full bridge MOSFETs". ]
[ Edit: TVSs really are a type of diode. Thanks, Weber. ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Walde » Sat, 18 May 2019, 19:05

OK thank you for the info.
Get the TVS Diodes now at Mouser.com.
They have the TVS SMCJ51A (identification GFZ).
In Germany, the ESD suppressors diodes.

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Walde » Fri, 24 May 2019, 20:58

Has anyone already repaired the "error 09"?

I replaced the TVS which was defective (only One TVS was defective).
All other TVS are OK (but still changed) ( SMCJ51A 1.5kW 51V - GFZ )
All MOSFET are OK (the defective TVS has been replaced by the Mosfet) ( CSD19505KCS 80V N-CH NexFET Pwr )

Still get the mistake.
Have now ordered the following parts.
the
- D65 - RHRP8120 8A, 1200V, Hyperfast diode
- U16 - IC PWM CNTL - uc3845ad1 SOP-8

But maybe someone has already fixed such a problem with the error 09

Info: I have a service manual from Voltronic :roll:

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by coulomb » Sat, 25 May 2019, 09:09

Walde wrote:
Fri, 24 May 2019, 20:58
But maybe someone has already fixed such a problem with the error 09
Alas, there are many faults that can result in the dreaded fault code 09. There are three basic groups:
  • Something shorts the bus, often a pair of IGBTs. Note that there are two sets of IGBTs: the inverter proper (4), and the higher voltage end of the DC-DC converter (another 4, I think Q27-Q30).
  • The soft start power supply, consisting of U16/Q6/TX2 and associated components. Schematic here.
  • Something breaks down at a voltage lower than the working bus voltage, e.g. carbonised muck on the PCB (Weber had this problem), or a weakened IGBT or capacitor that can stand a hundred volts but not 400 V.
If you can see non-zero resistance across the bus (there are large marked pads on the top of the board for this), then it's more likely to be the second item.

[ Edit: Added link to schematic. ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Walde » Fri, 31 May 2019, 20:49

Does anyone have a article number / manufacturer for the TX2 !!! Attention, the 48V device !!!

According to the service manual, it should be a transformer seemingly with the data ( TX 15:200:15 FER EEL16 )

But at RS, Farnell and Mouser I have not found anything yet and needed your help.

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by coulomb » Sat, 01 Jun 2019, 06:20

Walde wrote:
Fri, 31 May 2019, 20:49
it should be a transformer seemingly with the data ( TX 15:200:15 FER EEL16 )
Transformers are not usually stock parts. It's actually a Multi-winding inductor, i.e. it has an air gap for storing energy; the power supply is a flyback type. The 15:200:15 part might be the turns ratio, possibly even the actual number of turns. It may be that one of the 15 turn windings is not used. The last part might indicate the grade of ferrite in the core. It is possible that you might be able to get a replacement custom made to those specifications from a specialist winding company. I imagine that buying just one or a few would be prohibitively expensive.

If you really need to replace the soft start power supply, it might be more practical to find a small brick type DC-DC with a suitable enable pin, and replace the whole thing (up to but excluding the final diode) with the brick. Vicor make such things; you'd need a 48 volt to ~450 volt model rated at about 5 watts. A quick search indicates that they make mostly low output voltage products, the highest I saw was 95 V. But there may be higher output voltage products, perhaps from other manufacturers, like Meanwell.

The other possibility is finding a "transformer" from a main board that is not repairable, for example many companies won't replace 16 MOSFETs if they blow. One hazard there is that there seems to be two slightly different transformers in use. If you replace with the wrong version, it might not work or other parts might blow.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by lopezjm2001 » Mon, 10 Jun 2019, 21:37

Today the SCC stopped working on my PIP4048MS. The remainder of the PIP still works. A couple of PCB mounted relays were fubar which dropped off the PCB. According to my data logging the PV value was at 3kw when it happened. Any idea WTF happened?
Anyhow I removed the remains of the SCC and cleaned up the PIP4048MS which still works just minus the function of PV charging.

UPDATE: I have asked support at mppSolar.com to supply me a new SCC board.
New SCC board costs US$100 with 4 week lead time to build the board as they are out of stock.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk » Wed, 12 Jun 2019, 20:26

I always wondered about automotive relays at 50v or more I am running at less than max amps on my pips might have been good choice
I like the Esmart3 MPPT chargers they have a 60amp unit but its cheaper to buy two 40amp units and get 80amps they are also more efficient than the pip one
they also record total power and monthly power. They also play nice with the pips when working you could get a 40amp unit and split your panels between the pip and Esmart get you going till the pip unit arrives.

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Walde » Wed, 12 Jun 2019, 21:51

I have a new Tester Tool 10$/10Euro with Shipping

A pair of values from the components.

TVS / SMCJ51A 1.5kW 5 1V - GFZ
IMG_20190612_152604-k.jpg
IMG_20190612_152604-k.jpg (550.3 KiB) Viewed 1981 times
MOSFET / CSD19505KCS 80V N-CH NexFET Pwr
IMG_20190612_152435-k.jpg
IMG_20190612_152435-k.jpg (621.29 KiB) Viewed 1981 times
D65 - RHRP8120 8A, 1200V, Hyperfast diode 
IMG_20190612_152505-k.jpg
IMG_20190612_152505-k.jpg (648.32 KiB) Viewed 1981 times
I'm impressed by what the little tester can do 😍

😎 Have a nice day.

I will continue to test and hope that I get my fix times. 

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:27

My batteries are getting old (7 years young) so been looking at alternatives coulomb can we get the voltage up to 66v for charging I still have one of my one in bits and I have 80v fets I can only see the 63v caps as a problem so change them. The reason is alkaline batteries need 66v.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by coulomb » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:32

paulvk wrote:
Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:27
can we get the voltage up to 66v for charging ...
There are other problems. The main one is that the bus voltage is mostly tied to a multiple of the battery voltage; for the 58.4 V models it was 8:1 (I assume that they use a smaller ratio for the 64 V models). So 66 V would push the bus voltage too high, and there is lots of code to stabilise the bus voltage, that I would not want to touch.

Sorry.
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP-4048MS and PIP-5048MS inverters

Post by paulvk » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 20:38

Was a thought ! Might have to get the 64v ones in that case, looking at NiFe as I have the grid just use the inverters to limit its use I can do more and deeper cycles with NiFe without the worry of wearing them out.

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Walde » Mon, 17 Jun 2019, 22:40

how can I test the IGBTs.

For me GW80H65DFB are installed

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by coulomb » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 06:24

Walde wrote:
Mon, 17 Jun 2019, 22:40
how can I test the IGBTs.
A bit difficult to test completely. But seeing the anti-parallel diode is a pretty good test in practice, since 99% of MOSFETs and IGBTs fail either short circuit or open circuit.

[ Edit : added "and IGBTs" ; "back diode" → "anti-parallel diode" ]
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by weber » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 07:12

Walde wrote:
Mon, 17 Jun 2019, 22:40
how can I test the IGBTs.

For me GW80H65DFB are installed
That's a great little tester for $10. But I see from eBay that it doesn't claim to test IGBTs. However, since your IGBTs have a built-in anti-parallel diode (free-wheeling diode), they might test as MOSFETs, if you can get their 0.2"-spaced pins into test holes 1, 2 and 3. If your ZIF socket is arranged like some other testers I see on eBay, then you should be able to bend the pins to get them into the holes shown bolded and underlined below:
1231111    or    1231111
2223333          2223333

Failing that, if you short the gate to the emitter, then it should test as a diode between emitter and collector, as per Coulomb's suggestion. You can do that by using the holes shown bolded and underlined below:
1231111
2223333

And if you short the collector to the emitter, then it should test as a capacitor between gate and emitter (about 11 nF). You can do that by using the holes shown bolded and underlined below:
1231111
2223333

I see there are some $30 component testers on eBay, that do claim to test IGBTs (although they don't say if they can test IGBTs that have an integral diode).
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1pc-LCR-T7- ... ctupt=true
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by weber » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 10:33

I just did a bit of research on these low-cost component testers. It turns out they consist of a microcontroller and 6 resistors! I kid you not. This design, and the clever software that makes it all work, was invented, and open-sourced for non-commercial use, by one Markus Frejek, German. He deserves a medal. We should at least call them "Frejek testers", presumably pronounced "FRAY-eck".

Image

Here's a Google translation:
http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... stortester

There's no mention of IGBTs, apparently because the algorithm first checks for diodes between all pairs of terminals (with the third terminal floating), and if it finds none, it assumes the component is not a semiconductor. A plain IGBT will not register as a diode between any pair of terminals, unless the third terminal is also correctly biased.
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Re: PIP inverter repairs and hardware modifications

Post by Walde » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 20:21

Ho have now been able to test the IGBT as follows.

Pin 1 and Pin 2 = Capacitor with 3700pf approx.
and
Pin 2 and Pin 3 = Diode Uf = 440mv approx. / C = 6.35 nf

For me, the following IGBT are apparently defective
Q32, Q27, Q28
and the TVS, TVS1

If one is broken everything else comes
defective = e.g. Pin 2 and Pin 3 = Risistor 0.00
defective = Pin 1 and Pin 2 = Capacitor 17nf

I'm still sending pictures

Have ordered the IGBT now and will report how it looks like who I have changed.

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