Kona EV Real World Range Experience

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photomac
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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by photomac » Wed, 11 Sep 2019, 10:59

EVdownUnder wrote:
Tue, 10 Sep 2019, 20:09

Questions:
Is there an app/website where I can see if a Tesla destination charger is available?
Cheers,
Patrick
Congratulations ! First EV is incredibly exciting and the grin keeps going.
PlugShare is the App you need. Note the settings.
Also, if a socket is available always ask, always offer to pay else it is stealing.
There are places where it is free but only while demand is low.
Have fun
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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Wed, 11 Sep 2019, 11:45

Yes I fully agree Photomac.
I stopped at a cafe in the Damaging hills of Melbourne with a Tesla charger at the back, walked in and asked if I could change my car, the owner was abnormally happy and shocked that I asked... Seems common courtesy to me.
As for PlugShare, I can see the charger status for most type of charger, but all Tesla's (from my limited experience) are set to "unknown". Is there something I don't know?
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

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JD Solar and EV
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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by JD Solar and EV » Wed, 11 Sep 2019, 21:55

I have managed 548km without charging with 23km remaining.

This included highway, mountains and regular city driving.

Here is a video that I did about it called "How Far Can You Go In A Kona On One Charge?"

https://youtu.be/dF17qvszi-c

Cheers

JD
Check out my EV videos at JD Solar and EV YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNMxXc ... bUTfpHU5LQ

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 17:16

I still don't have enough data to share but I am super happy to see that after 600km for my first week, 12.5kWh/100km is my average if I don't count the weekend. Only because A to B during the week and fun driving on the weekend :D 14.0 if counting the weekends. So far I'm at $8 total of (paid) electricity. The rest was free chargers at various places. Amazing !
2 questions for the panel:
1) I enjoy and use a lot the full stop using the left side regent paddle, but I can't hear any breaks applied after stopping. Does the car use electric power to the motor to stay on the spot?
The consumption indicator says no, but this strange move when the car goes backwards a little bit is surprising.
2) If driving at a stable 80km/h, does driving in regent "3" or "0" change anything to the power consumption? One would assume not, but as you can lift you foot of the peddle quite a bit when passing from 3 to 0, my brain is assuming that I will use less juice. Can anyone confirm?
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

Peter C in Canberra
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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 20:08

EVdownUnder wrote:
Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 17:16
...If driving at a stable 80km/h, does driving in regent "3" or "0" change anything to the power consumption? One would assume not...
I own two other EVs, not the Kona, but the level of regen selected for backing off the throttle should make no difference when just driving at a steady speed and not using regen.
Daihatsu charade conversion 2009-18, iMiEV 2013-2019, Holden Volt 2018-present, on the ACT's 100% renewable electricity. Kona on order.

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by photomac » Mon, 16 Sep 2019, 14:35

EVdownUnder wrote:
Sun, 15 Sep 2019, 17:16
...
1) I enjoy and use a lot the full stop using the left side regent paddle, but I can't hear any breaks applied after stopping. Does the car use electric power to the motor to stay on the spot?
The consumption indicator says no, but this strange move when the car goes backwards a little bit is surprising.
...
Look in the manual [ Auto Hold ] pages 5-36 & 5-37.
RaVOLT Kona AutoHold 1of2.jpg
RaVOLT Kona AutoHold 1of2.jpg (1.36 MiB) Viewed 959 times
RaVOLT Kona AutoHold 2of2.jpg
RaVOLT Kona AutoHold 2of2.jpg (1.8 MiB) Viewed 959 times
Also temporarily by holding the left side paddle while cruising. Manual [ One Pedal Driving ] Page 5-21
RaVOLT Kona One Pedal Driving.jpg
RaVOLT Kona One Pedal Driving.jpg (1.19 MiB) Viewed 959 times
Yes,   we can.   Image
Hyundai Kona 64 v1 Sept 2019 onward. 00016 up to 3850+
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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by photomac » Mon, 16 Sep 2019, 14:41

Back on Topic. First Freeway/urban long run. Calm day. No air con. 27C and 3 in car. Total run of 96.2km. Freeway for 70km with 30% at 80kph, 70kph on 50% of urban streets. As I started freeway it dropped from 15.5 to 13.1. I am impressed!!
RaVOLT Kona Freeway 190916.jpeg
RaVOLT Kona Freeway 190916.jpeg (389.11 KiB) Viewed 958 times
Yes,   we can.   Image
Hyundai Kona 64 v1 Sept 2019 onward. 00016 up to 3850+
Mitsubishi PHEV v1 Apr 2016 to Aug 2019 14500 to 72000km
Nissan LEAF v1.0 Nov 2013 to Apr 2016 00035 to 36000km

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Wed, 25 Sep 2019, 21:22

The numbers are starting to build-up.
KonaHighlanderEV.jpg
KonaHighlanderEV.jpg (76.95 KiB) Viewed 902 times
The first 3 days of ownership were fun... After that, and until yesterday, an average of 12.4 without the weekends and 12.6 including the weekends is amazing.
This gives me an estimated range of about 510km. Please note that I have never tested the linearity near the end and have never gone below 18% of battery. Regardless the Kona rocks!
I was charging next to an i-Pace the other day, a $150k car (admittedly not in the same class as the Kona) that can't match this range with a 95kWh battery !!!
Today (Wednesday 25th) was the first real test. Not of the car but my range anxiety. I'm cured. 440km with a 20 minute stop to test a Tesla charger and buy snacks, and a 1 hour lunch-break to test another Tesla charger. At an average speed of 74km/h and mostly on my own (read below), the consumption did go up, but still below WLTP. Impressive.
Another surprise is how accurate the guess'o'meter is on a full day. This can only be calculated (simply) if I don't charge that day.
G dist = GOM distance and G to D is the relation between the GOM and actual km travelled.
The total daily kWh consumed is calculated from the daily km x the kWh/100km.

Notes:
I hardly ever use the climate control. Possibly for a few minutes every other day. (That is as unscientific as it gets... Sorry!)
I use the seat warmer on the lowest setting for 3 or 4 minutes most mornings and very occasionally the steering wheel heater.
I always drive in "Eco" mode because "Eco" in this Kona EV is "Ludicrous" in any of my previous cars :lol:
I have a bad habit (from my travels with a thirsty Lada Niva before I had money...) of following large vehicles on the highway using the closest setting of the ACC.
I do not recommend doing this unless you have paid the "windscreen premium with no excess" :roll:
My tires are at 40psi and on long distance country travelling I have been known to fold my side mirrors to save point something of a percent. Yes I know...
And travel on my own during the week with about 50kg of tools and parts in my boot.

Tomorrow, back to Melbourne with a lunchtime charging stop just to keep cost down.
Cheers,
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by photomac » Thu, 26 Sep 2019, 08:44

EVdownUnder wrote:
Wed, 25 Sep 2019, 21:22
The numbers are starting to build-up.
...
I always drive in "Eco" mode because "Eco" in this Kona EV is "Ludicrous" in any of my previous cars :lol:
...
Cheers,
Patrick
Brilliant data! Thanks and yes, eco can enuf ludicrous for me too, particularly shooting to the gap in front when changing lanes in stead of a forced squeeze in a long tail string behind.
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Hyundai Kona 64 v1 Sept 2019 onward. 00016 up to 3850+
Mitsubishi PHEV v1 Apr 2016 to Aug 2019 14500 to 72000km
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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Fri, 27 Sep 2019, 19:26

By the way the return trip averaged 13.4. Average speed 10km/h lower on the return due entirely to crossing Melbourne during a particularly bad peak-hour.
This car is totally amazing. Although road noise at 100 or more is not fantastic. I really wish they had put better tires.
This is one of the reason I was waiting for the e-Nero, but there are only so many launch postpone I can take.
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by photomac » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 14:18

Day trip Perth - Bunbury - Perth 407km on one charge.
Two passengers and myself having a combined weight of 290kg ( ouch ).
Fine and calm day with no need for air-conditioning ( allow 10% for AC consumption if required ).

Started at 100% charge (GoM 526km)
1 Start Energy.jpg
1 Start Energy.jpg (357.64 KiB) Viewed 833 times
and ended with 12% (GoM 52km) with an average of 14.1kWh/100km
3 End Energy.JPG
3 End Energy.JPG (308.51 KiB) Viewed 833 times
Typically, town consumption is 10.8-11.5kWh/100km and highway is 14.8-16.0kWh/100km.
4 End Drive Info.JPG
4 End Drive Info.JPG (101.97 KiB) Viewed 833 times
407km = total distance travelled
306km = Highway distance ( sitting between 100 and 110kph
101km = urban/town distance

The day after I ran the battery down to 5% to try and reset BMS. Successful I think as the predicted battery capacity dropped from 78kWh to 66kWh for a 64kWh pack.
I then went for a fast charge.
35minutes put in 26.2kWh ( 186km )
At an average of 45kW rate. If the new ChargeFox can put in 65kW this result translates to 269km in 35 minutes = 230km per half hour.
1 FC Start Energy.JPG
1 FC Start Energy.JPG (425.59 KiB) Viewed 833 times
2 FC Start Info.JPG
2 FC Start Info.JPG (177.19 KiB) Viewed 833 times
3 FC Rate initial.JPG
3 FC Rate initial.JPG (118.39 KiB) Viewed 833 times
My beverage, food, toilet stops require half an hour in less than 230km.
So, with a 90% battery charge initially , regular half hour rest breaks and a fast charge network on major routes, there is no range anxiety!
Yes,   we can.   Image
Hyundai Kona 64 v1 Sept 2019 onward. 00016 up to 3850+
Mitsubishi PHEV v1 Apr 2016 to Aug 2019 14500 to 72000km
Nissan LEAF v1.0 Nov 2013 to Apr 2016 00035 to 36000km

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Thu, 03 Oct 2019, 18:59

Very interesting observation... After my trip to Portland last week (see a few posts back), a different customer had an instrument down 3 days later in Warrnambool. So I went this past Wednesday morning, returning tonight. And here are some interesting numbers:
KonaEVTempEffect.jpg
KonaEVTempEffect.jpg (67.27 KiB) Viewed 730 times
So I understand that Warrnambool is 100km closer but you would still expect similar numbers.
(The 30 extra km in the Portland day 1 trip is a short extra drive at low speed to go and see the seals.)
AustralianFurSeal.jpg
AustralianFurSeal.jpg (319.1 KiB) Viewed 730 times
And yet, average consumption on the Portland trip was 13.8 / 13.4 there / back, and 12.4 / 12.7 for Warrnambool ???
Average speed is too close to explain the difference, my driving style was as exactly the same as possible.
So the most probable variable that could explain this vast difference (correct me if I'm wrong) is temperature.
On the Portland trip, it was 10-12°C all the way and both ways, the temperature in the last 2 days was 24-26°C both ways.
Even though I did not use any climate control on either trip, could this temperature difference explain the difference in electricity consumption?
Cheers,
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by antiscab » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 09:27

EVdownUnder wrote:
Thu, 03 Oct 2019, 18:59

So the most probable variable that could explain this vast difference (correct me if I'm wrong) is temperature.
On the Portland trip, it was 10-12°C all the way and both ways, the temperature in the last 2 days was 24-26°C both ways.
Even though I did not use any climate control on either trip, could this temperature difference explain the difference in electricity consumption?
All my EV's vary from the average by 30% either side
Here's what affects range in order of significance, that you can't control:
wind direction and speed
air temperature (the air is denser at lower temperature)
Air pressure (at speed most of your energy is pushing air out of the way, higher the air pressure the more air there is to push out of the way)
road temperature (hot road means stickier tyres)

The problem is when you do a measurement on one run, you don't know whether that is an average, or an outlier situation
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 10:06

antiscab wrote:
Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 09:27
...All my EV's vary from the average by 30% either side...
Ditto.

Another factor that might play a part is battery temperature. When the battery is cold, any real world cell behaves like an ideal cell with some resistance in series. That internal resistance is higher when it is cold, so, for the same current, some of the voltage drop is across that internal resistance. Some cells have more voltage droop at low temperatures than others due to differences of chemistry and structure. That dissipates some of the energy inside the battery rather than in the motor doing useful work. Of course that heats the battery, which partially mitigates the effect, but it still takes some energy to do it. If the car decides the battery needs further, externally-applied heat, then that ultimately still comes from the battery as energy not available to push the car along. An interesting optimisation problem would be to work out how much energy to use for battery heating to improve efficiency without using too much and reducing efficiency.

I wish we were getting the much more efficient heat pump heater rather than the cheap resistive heater. I am sure that to a Korean nowhere in Australia gets to what they would regard as cold, but I think sub-zero overnight in Canberra winters is quite chilly enough to justify the more efficient heater.
Daihatsu charade conversion 2009-18, iMiEV 2013-2019, Holden Volt 2018-present, on the ACT's 100% renewable electricity. Kona on order.

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 21:04

The best I've seen so far...
KonaEV521GoM.jpg
KonaEV521GoM.jpg (222.68 KiB) Viewed 616 times
But as mentioned before, I wear a beanie and Hug boots when it's cold, drive very conservatively and I'm a truck slipstream specialist on the highway (actually the Kona's ACC does the hard work).
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Wed, 06 Nov 2019, 19:45

My stats for October, first full month:

Total distance: 3285km (106km daily average)
Average consumption: 125Wh/km
Average speed: 48.8km/h
Use of heating/cooling: About 5%/5% of the time, most of the time on the full car.

Still charging as much as practical at public chargers.
Total charging cost for October (at home when range is below 200km): $10.53
Total estimated cost savings compared to an 8L/100km car: $386 (ULP91 price average for Melbourne on the Australian Institute of Petroleum website)
So conservatively, $350 fuel savings a month and about $800/year of service, that's a saving of about $5000/year.
Impressive! Still hard to justify the price difference to the ICE version if you are not an EV enthousiaste though...
Cheers,
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by Peter C in Canberra » Thu, 07 Nov 2019, 09:20

EVdownUnder wrote:
Wed, 06 Nov 2019, 19:45
...that's a saving of about $5000/year.
Impressive! Still hard to justify the price difference to the ICE version if you are not an EV enthousiaste though...
If you have the car for a decade, you save $50K, most of the purchase price. I reckon a new Kona EV is better than any new petrol car you could have bought for the remainder of $20K.
Daihatsu charade conversion 2009-18, iMiEV 2013-2019, Holden Volt 2018-present, on the ACT's 100% renewable electricity. Kona on order.

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Thu, 07 Nov 2019, 18:33

Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Thu, 07 Nov 2019, 09:20
If you have the car for a decade, you save $50K, most of the purchase price. I reckon a new Kona EV is better than any new petrol car you could have bought for the remainder of $20K.
I fully agree with you but... A decade for me is 400'000km.
Will the car survive that? Probably. Will the battery survive that? Not sure.
I bought the Kona for it's range, in the last 2 months my 5 biggest days were 441, 425, 410 and 2 day at 385km.
So battery degradation is the big unknown. Using an ICE car 4 or 5 days a year, fine. 2 or 3 days a month, not happening.

And again, the Kona is a great car, but not perfect.
Too small. I know that is subjective. I knew the size before I bought it. So the boot will be fine for most people but the rear passenger leg room... I'm 5'9 and unless you have no knees, the ride behind my seat is uncomfortable at best.
And my number 1 complaint: Too noisy.
Perfect to 60, fine to 80 but at highway speeds, too noisy for a $50k car, unacceptably too noisy for a $70k car.
It's a real shame to create such a good car and skimp on cabine insulation.
The minor issues, the Lane Keep Assist is rubbish, and no driver seat/mirrors memory position? Again on a $30k car fine, on a $70k car?
And I can't think of any other issues... That is pretty amazing really.

You may think that I am harsh but let's be honest, most of us are EV lovers, I know I would have bought it if it had square wheels but the average Joe who doesn't give two hoots about EVs and drives 10 to 15'000km/year can buy a nice Lexus, a Merc C200 or a Volvo XC60... And yes it will cost them more in the long run, but most people don't think that way.
The other big question is resale. A 10 year old Camry is still around $10'000. What will a Kona EV be?

Beside there will be way too many great new EVs in 3 to 4 years to keep that one for a decade.
I feel bad being a party pooper but on the other end, if we don't expect any better, why would they give us any better.
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by bladecar » Sun, 10 Nov 2019, 11:36

EVdownUnder wrote:
Thu, 07 Nov 2019, 18:33
Peter C in Canberra wrote:
Thu, 07 Nov 2019, 09:20
If you have the car for a decade, you save $50K, most of the purchase price. I reckon a new Kona EV is better than any new petrol car you could have bought for the remainder of $20K.
I fully agree with you but... A decade for me is 400'000km.
Will the car survive that? Probably. Will the battery survive that? Not sure.
I bought the Kona for it's range, in the last 2 months my 5 biggest days were 441, 425, 410 and 2 day at 385km.
So battery degradation is the big unknown. Using an ICE car 4 or 5 days a year, fine. 2 or 3 days a month, not happening.

And again, the Kona is a great car, but not perfect.
Too small. I know that is subjective. I knew the size before I bought it. So the boot will be fine for most people but the rear passenger leg room... I'm 5'9 and unless you have no knees, the ride behind my seat is uncomfortable at best.
And my number 1 complaint: Too noisy.
Perfect to 60, fine to 80 but at highway speeds, too noisy for a $50k car, unacceptably too noisy for a $70k car.
It's a real shame to create such a good car and skimp on cabine insulation.
The minor issues, the Lane Keep Assist is rubbish, and no driver seat/mirrors memory position? Again on a $30k car fine, on a $70k car?
And I can't think of any other issues... That is pretty amazing really.

You may think that I am harsh but let's be honest, most of us are EV lovers, I know I would have bought it if it had square wheels but the average Joe who doesn't give two hoots about EVs and drives 10 to 15'000km/year can buy a nice Lexus, a Merc C200 or a Volvo XC60... And yes it will cost them more in the long run, but most people don't think that way.
The other big question is resale. A 10 year old Camry is still around $10'000. What will a Kona EV be?

Beside there will be way too many great new EVs in 3 to 4 years to keep that one for a decade.
I feel bad being a party pooper but on the other end, if we don't expect any better, why would they give us any better.
Hi, Thank you for your comments Re the Kona. Some very valuable input to someone who doesn't own one. Much appreciated. ps no emoticon. Can't find one that simply says "thank you" :)

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Thu, 14 Nov 2019, 13:20

This is the estimated range on the GoM after my last 100% charge (very rare to preserve the battery)
KonaBestGoM.jpg
KonaBestGoM.jpg (42.15 KiB) Viewed 340 times
This was the day after the 30+°C day. I had been using the aircon all day but still returned a 10.7kWh/100km. The Kona is amazing !
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by JD Solar and EV » Fri, 29 Nov 2019, 19:19

This was the day after the 30+°C day. I had been using the aircon all day but still returned a 10.7kWh/100km. The Kona is amazing !
It sure is. You are getting very similar stats to me. I'm at 11200km at 12.6kWh/100km
Check out my EV videos at JD Solar and EV YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNMxXc ... bUTfpHU5LQ

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Re: Kona EV Real World Range Experience

Post by EVdownUnder » Thu, 05 Dec 2019, 18:52

The November values are out.
3527km at an average of 48.1km/h with a consumption of 12.4kWh/100km
Total charging cost for November (paid by me from 240Vac 10A charging at home): $5.40
Total from new (10000km reached tonight): $42

November was a very gentle month to test the best possible consumption, all month in eco mode, and to test the auto-regen. It took me a bit of time to get used to it, thought I preferred manual until I when back to it in December. Auto-regen can still be adjusted in "aggressiveness" via the paddles. To my knowledge, no other (non-Hyundai or Kia) EV does it that well.

December is fun month. Comfort mode only and occasional strong accelerations. Advertising electric cars to hoons. If they are going to race around the neighbourhood, at least do it in silence ;)
So far I am very surprised by the little effect strong accelerations have on consumption. Admittedly it is only a handful or 2 a day but still surprised. High speed is obviously much worse than accelerations. Quite different to an ICE vehicle.
I love being first at the light with big engine ICE cars behind and watch them disappear in the rear-view mirror.
Cheers,
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 05 Dec 2019 (92 days of ownership)
10'000km at an average speed of 48.0km/h
127Wh/km from new

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