BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

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mikedufty
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BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by mikedufty » Sat, 01 Jun 2019, 21:00

I'm trying to figure out what is needed as a BMS for my 16 AVASS cells. I have read bits and pieces all over the place here and on the facebook group, but can't figure out the right place to ask, so thought I'd try a new thread.

Does anyone have recommendations?
I suspect I will end up with a Goodwe inverter. Is it important for the BMS to communicate with the inverter?

The main options people have used as far as I can tell are:
Battrium - about $1000
EV-Power - I think about $650, appealling because its made/sold by a neighbour. Does it communicate with the inverter?
4 springs DIY system. Seems like a nice project, but worried I will stuff up the SM components.

All these seem to have modules on the cells plus a controller.

I've also seen the Chargery BMS16 on ebay/aliexpress. This sounds to me like it would do the job (300A charge and discharge, 1.2A balancing), but doesn't involve cell modules, everything is in a central unit. Is there something obvious I am missing or could this also be suitable?

http://chargery.com/balancer.asp
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 1d17Tydz7Y
300A BMS 2S - 16S LiPo LiFe Battery Management System TFT LCD Display Lithium lifepo4 Li-ion Chargery BMS16 V2.0

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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by dgh853 » Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 05:12

Almost all the content about setting up the AVASS cells is on the Cell Mates facebook group. I'd suggest asking your question there.
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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by T1 Terry » Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 10:34

After much experience with cells killed by across cell balancers that use the burn off method, I'm very much against them. There is an active member of the SA Adelaide branch that is developing a well thought out BMS complete with an alternate method of balancing and full interface capabilities that would really suit a house power battery pack where the EV based BMS systems do not. The real difference is pack voltage and cell capacity, easy enough to balance 40 Ah cells, a whole different ball game balancing a few hundred Ah cells. This requires active continuous cell voltage monitoring, not simply monitoring pack voltage or the extremes of the cell voltage limits and this method of monitoring also monitors the BMS function itself. Electronics fail, especially if they get overloaded and therefore over heated, better to be warned this has happened than to find out after a cell has been murdered.

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mikedufty
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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by mikedufty » Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 13:18

The chinese BMS16 one seems to be monitoring all the cells and have quite a decent interface.
I saw there are active balancers on aliexpress too, but not much in the way of english documentation.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3A-lith ... 51715.html

I find the way facebook presents information quite incomprehensible, seems to default to hiding what you want to see, so thought I'd try here first.

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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by lobster » Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 13:59

dgh853 wrote:
Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 05:12
Almost all the content about setting up the AVASS cells is on the Cell Mates facebook group. I'd suggest asking your question there.
David have you got a link? I can only see the prison cellmates facebook groups.

Steve

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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by dgh853 » Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 14:28

Sorry I wasn't clearer in my response.

My suggestion was you're more likely to get a response to your question from the 64 members in the Cell Mates group many of whom who have completed their builds/installs. Many of them will receive a notification of your question in the facebook group as that is the default setting. The AEVA forum doesn't notify users by default so few AVASS cell installers will be notified of your question here.

I agree that "browsing" facebook content can be frustrating. The answer - don't browse facebook (it isn't structured to support that), search it instead. Typing in BMS in the "Search this Group" field on that group brings up multiple threads relating to BMS choices members have made to manage these cells.
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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by dgh853 » Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 14:29

lobster wrote:
Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 13:59
dgh853 wrote:
Sun, 02 Jun 2019, 05:12
Almost all the content about setting up the AVASS cells is on the Cell Mates facebook group. I'd suggest asking your question there.
David have you got a link? I can only see the prison cellmates facebook groups.

Steve
https://www.facebook.com/groups/252080995574519/
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mikedufty
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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by mikedufty » Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 11:51

I had read the whole facebook page, but didn't take notes.
I've now gone through it all again, and the ZEVA system is looking quite attractive.
I think Ian has made a modification so it can communicate with the Goodwe, and it looks like it does active balancing and does not need the separate cell top modules.
I will get in touch with Ian.

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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by 4Springs » Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:15

mikedufty wrote:
Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 11:51
the ZEVA system is looking quite attractive.
I came here to suggest the Zeva unit, but I see that you've found it! Services 12 cells per board, so you'd need two if you have 16 cells. This is a spaghetti BMS (wires go from one board to many cells), as opposed to a daisy-chain BMS (wires go from the master board, to each cell in turn, then back to the master).
The main disadvantage of a spaghetti BMS (to my eyes) is that it can get quite messy with the wiring. But this is much less likely to be the case in your stationary battery cabinet than it is in a car with distributed battery boxes. Other than this, I can't think of any particular reason to go spaghetti or daisy-chain.
mikedufty wrote:
Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 11:51
Is it important for the BMS to communicate with the inverter?
Yes, but 'communicate' might just mean "I'm full" and "I'm empty".
My BMS will be pretty simple. We'll set up the inverter as if it had a lead-acid battery, and just give it signals to say when it is full or empty. Mind you I haven't done any of this yet, so there are lots of experiments to come!

To complete your price table, the Low Cost BMS would be $185 for 16 cells. Plus lots of mucking around. Lots.

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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by jonescg » Tue, 04 Jun 2019, 06:58

There is a Zeva 16 cell module which is serving several of us West Aussies quite well.
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Re: BMS for AVASS cells, 16S LiFePO4

Post by mikedufty » Tue, 04 Jun 2019, 11:01

Yep, Ian says $335+GST for a version of the 8-16 cell BMS with isolated CAN bus,which allows the BMS to tell the inverter when it’s OK to charge and discharge the batteries. Seems like an attractive option. Just need to decide on the rest of the system and what order to start buying stuff.

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