Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Discussion about EV/Battery charging infrastructure, Electric highways etc.
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Chuq
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Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by Chuq » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 18:52

What do you get if you combine:
  • RAC WA Electric Highway
  • Queensland Electric Super Highway
  • NRMA Fast Charging Network
  • Chargefox Ultra-rapid 350 kW network
  • Evie Networks ultra-rapid 350 kW network
  • Tasmanian Government ChargeSmart grants
?
Along with a smattering of other individual fast charger installs?

If you combine all the current and planned network sites, you get something like this:

Small black dot = 50 kW
Large orange dot = 350 kW

What this map is or isn't:
  • This is a forward looking prediction - estimated end of 2020. Some of these may not eventuate or may take longer.
  • This does NOT include Tesla superchargers - only public DC chargers
  • This does NOT include any AC chargers
  • This only includes locations where the specific site has some form of evidence behind it - whether it be a map, or a council document, or similar - or very obvious interpolation of other sites
  • There are other DC fast charge network proposals but this only includes those which have identified locations, or have started to progress in some way
  • Some sites are marked at an exact location, but others are just at a town or city
The intention is to amalgamate all the "coming soon" maps from various vendors, and also act as a guide as to where we should focus our efforts. Also, I just found it interesting :)

Map was generated from a spreadsheet of locations that I maintain myself, sourced from various places. Not using Plugshare, OpenChargeMap etc as many locations are not precisely known and therefore not appropriate for those sorts of sites. Additions/comments welcome!

Image

South-east closeup:

Image

antiscab
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Re: Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by antiscab » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 22:48

I like the Tasmanian ones in the ocean :D

given the falling cost of powerful onboard chargers, and the poor reliability of stationary DC fast chargers, I suspect by the time there's significant build out, only the "old" cars being made now would use them
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
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Re: Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by Chuq » Sat, 12 Oct 2019, 08:28

antiscab wrote:
Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 22:48
I like the Tasmanian ones in the ocean :D
That's just the amazing Tassie coastline for you :P

given the falling cost of powerful onboard chargers, and the poor reliability of stationary DC fast chargers, I suspect by the time there's significant build out, only the "old" cars being made now would use them
Not sure what you mean here... reliability on new units today is significantly better than units from 5 years ago.

Do you think EVs buyers will be happy with 11-22 kW AC charging on trips instead of 100-150 kW DC charging?

Or are there cars coming that support >22 kW AC charging? And the number of >22 kW AC chargers in this country (currently 0, with 0 planned to my knowledge) will take over the DC chargers shown (currently approx 80 with another 70 coming)?

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Re: Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by EVdownUnder » Sat, 12 Oct 2019, 19:09

Chuq, this is an amazing map/information!
Would it be possible to show the already operational ones?
For example a little green dot for the 50kW and a big green dot for the 350kW ones?
Well done and thank you for sharing.
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 06 Nov 2019 (62 days of ownership)
7171km at an average speed of 48.8km/h
130Wh/km from new
Total charging cost so far: $41.78

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Re: Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by Chuq » Sun, 13 Oct 2019, 14:25

EVdownUnder wrote:
Sat, 12 Oct 2019, 19:09
Chuq, this is an amazing map/information!
Would it be possible to show the already operational ones?
For example a little green dot for the 50kW and a big green dot for the 350kW ones?
Well done and thank you for sharing.
Patrick
No worries at all - yeah it's reasonably quick for me to set different market colours/types and can do it based on active or not. Gets a bit messy if I'm also differentiating 50 / 350.

I'm planning to make sure all my data is correct, and then do it animated gif style with 3 frames "end of 2018 / now / end of 2020" to show both the huge increase in the last 12 months, and how the projected increase for the next 12 months isn't as crazy as it looks.

This is the "open now" version:

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Re: Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by EVdownUnder » Sun, 13 Oct 2019, 18:56

Thank you. Fantastic data. Strange to see how Melbourne - Adelaide is a charger's desert?
ChargeFox announced their end of 2019 plan, do you know if it is possible to get more accurate dates for specific sites?
I've got a few trips coming and need the Ballarat one ideally before the end of October (unlikely), and the Melbourne - Sydney fully done before Christmas (very probable).
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 06 Nov 2019 (62 days of ownership)
7171km at an average speed of 48.8km/h
130Wh/km from new
Total charging cost so far: $41.78

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Re: Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by antiscab » Sun, 13 Oct 2019, 19:18

Chuq wrote:
Sat, 12 Oct 2019, 08:28
Not sure what you mean here... reliability on new units today is significantly better than units from 5 years ago.
I hope so
we shall see, you don't normally see issues until they're a few years old
Chuq wrote:
Sat, 12 Oct 2019, 08:28
Do you think EVs buyers will be happy with 11-22 kW AC charging on trips instead of 100-150 kW DC charging?

Or are there cars coming that support >22 kW AC charging? And the number of >22 kW AC chargers in this country (currently 0, with 0 planned to my knowledge) will take over the DC chargers shown (currently approx 80 with another 70 coming)?
Renault have 44kw AC fast charge on some versions of their Zoe (the new one is also DC fast charge compatible as well).

All the fast charge stations (at least the ones in WA) are AC fast charge too (and there's several that are AC fast charge only)
AC fast charge is cheaper to install, the difference is especially great where the local grid already has the capacity.
$1k for AC fast charge install vs $10k for chademo

I was going to suggest the topology is capable of 150kw+ too, but then I realised as a continuous rating as you would for charging, the powerstage would need to be significantly better cooled than for just driving duty

So maybe DC fast charge is the future after all. just a much bigger ask when it comes to install costs
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

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Re: Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by coulomb » Sun, 13 Oct 2019, 20:49

antiscab wrote:
Sun, 13 Oct 2019, 19:18
All the fast charge stations (at least the ones in WA) are AC fast charge too
I see that they are listed in Plugshare as 50 kW. So that would be 70+ A per phase. Is that for real? Or just that it's an AC outlet in a box that can supply 50 kW DC so they call it 50 kW?

I see 63 A type 2 cables for sale, so I suppose it might be true. Though I've not heard of any vehicles with more than 22 kW on-board chargers (other than the new Zoe you mentioned). I doubt that there is a single such vehicle in Australia (possibly excepting garbage trucks and the like).
AC fast charge is cheaper to install, the difference is especially great where the local grid already has the capacity.
$1k for AC fast charge install vs $10k for chademo
I can't see why a 50 kW DC charger would cost 10x as much as an AC EVSE. For both, you hook up stout 3-phase AC cable and perhaps some fibre for communications. Both are just one box (granted, the DC charger could well be a lot heavier). Certainly the 350 kW chargers with the separate charger / rectifier units would cost more to install, though I would think that 10x would be a bit much. I don't know if the 100-150 kW DC chargers are of the single unit or dual unit type.
So maybe DC fast charge is the future after all. just a much bigger ask when it comes to install costs
Of course, the DC charger hardware is going to cost a lot more than the AC EVSE too. The DC charger has the actual high power conversion electronics, in addition to the contactors, display, etc that are common to both DC and AC.

Oh, by install cost, did you mean total cost, including the cost of the charger/EVSE hardware? I assumed you meant just the cost of the electricians and concrete workers etc doing the installing.
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Re: Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by coulomb » Sun, 13 Oct 2019, 20:57

antiscab wrote:
Sun, 13 Oct 2019, 19:18
I was going to suggest the topology is capable of 150kw+ too, but then I realised as a continuous rating as you would for charging, the powerstage would need to be significantly better cooled than for just driving duty
Yeah. That's the thing with very fast charging. You want to be able to drive for several hours, but charge in less than one hour. So the continuous charge power rating of the battery and charge system has to be significantly higher than the discharge power rating. Best to have the fast charger off-vehicle, rather than carry around all that power electronics and cooling. So that means DC charging, at least for ultra-rapid charge rates.

Is the new Zoe topology one that utilises the motor controller as the charger somehow?
Nissan Leaf 2012 with new battery May 2019.
5650 W solar, 2xPIP-4048MS inverters, 16 kWh battery.
1.4 kW solar with 1.2 kW Latronics inverter and FIT.
160 W solar, 2.5 kWh 24 V battery for lights.
Patching PIP-4048/5048 inverter-chargers.

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Re: Fast charging infrastructure - forward-looking overview

Post by antiscab » Mon, 14 Oct 2019, 07:09

The zoe topology has always used the motor inverter and motor windings to act as a charger. There is a version on Europe that has been available for about 5 years that can do 44kw recharge, though you're right, none here in Australia.

The zoe motor and inverter are 44kw continuous rated as is, so yes upgrades needed to charge faster. System Max power is 73kw, till it gets hot.

The WA charge stations can simultaneously AC fast charge and DC fast charge. I haven't tested them at full speed, though Joseph's imiev was taking 23kw on the DC, and my zoe was taking 22kw on the AC. Wasn't really pushing the station that hard.

They're also usually colocated with a major transformer. Not sure if the transformer was already there and so thats why the charge station was put there, or whether it was a special install. The transformer next to the Donnybrook charge station looked to be several 100kva sized.

I haven't really had a look at the rest
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

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