Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

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1GR8KA
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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by 1GR8KA » Sun, 24 Apr 2016, 01:25

HHL, good info. Thanks. I use the paddlex pretty much the same way too.
Save or use and recharge is an intersting conundrum. In my long trip it seems to work better to use and recharge one way and save on the return journey.
However in going from the relatively elevated town of Doreen to Torquay @ sea level it is really down hill. Uphill on the way back. Can 160m make a difference?
Half the fun is trying it out.
I think MollyD sums it up well and that is its cheap to run.
Baz

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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by 1GR8KA » Mon, 25 Apr 2016, 03:09

HHL, good info. Thanks. I use the paddlex pretty much the same way too.
Save or use and recharge is an intersting conundrum. In my long trip it seems to work better to use and recharge one way and save on the return journey.
However in going from the relatively elevated town of Doreen to Torquay @ sea level it is really down hill. Uphill on the way back. Can 160m make a difference?
Half the fun is trying it out.
I think MollyD sums it up well and that is its cheap to run.
Baz

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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by zzcoopej » Mon, 25 Apr 2016, 13:20

1GR8KA wrote: Save or use and recharge is an intersting conundrum.
For those who have concluded that using Charge is more economical than Save, how have you determined that the battery is at the same level at the end of the trip as it was at the start? To make a fair comparison I would think more than the battery level gauge on the dash would be required as the PHEV can deplete past the nominal "empty" mark in some circumstances? Even if you used "SOC real" in EvBatMon to ensure the starting battery level equals the ending battery level, it only has a resolution of 0.1Ah.
Note, the Dash normally shows SOC between 30% and 100% as the PHEV leaves 1 bar in reserve. When the battery gauge shows totally empty the battery is at 26% SOC. Below that the turtle light comes up until the battery is 13% and then the battery is no longer used to protect it. Under 22% SOC the A/c no longer works, and below 17% SOC power is reduced. You should only experience these levels when towing a caravan and not managing the SOC properly, or after running out of petrol.
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Battery App EvBatMon for PHEV & iMiEV iOS(iPhone,iPad)& Android
www.EvPositive.com

1GR8KA
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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by 1GR8KA » Mon, 25 Apr 2016, 18:31

Good question - for me I have finished the journey with a double dash reading on the battery in the trip meter section.This has been so for all comments I have made re using "charge" over "save".
I would be happy to say that "charge" CAN be more economical than "save" in many circumstances; but not a lot in it.
I think I like having my battery meter with charge in it - it's more comforting :-)
Here's some math for everyone - urban driving mostly.
Fuel tank full 45 litres.
Battery full to start.
Assume 50km distance from first charge.
Stop car, hit charge and let it charge from the engine to 80%.
Used 3 litres of petrol
Assume you will get around the 40 km mark.(Assuming about 80% charge)
Now you could do this 15 times using 3 litres of petrol per charge whilst stationary.
So the sums are -
15 x 40km   (Petrol used up) = 600km
Plus the initial 50 km from the charge.
So total of   650 km
So that's around the 14.5 km per litre
or 6.9 litres per 100km

Surely this has got to be one of the dumbest ways to use the PHEV but demonstrates that the "charge" button can have its uses.
Baz

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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by Johny » Tue, 26 Apr 2016, 15:44

1GR8KA wrote:...
However in going from the relatively elevated town of Doreen to Torquay @ sea level it is really down hill. Uphill on the way back. Can 160m make a difference?
...
Yes.
Assuming the PHEV weighs 1500kg.
The energy (work) required to lift 1500kg through 160M is around 2.354MJ which translates to 654 Watt hours.
Assuming the PHEV gets 50km on 10kW/h (200wh/km) then 0.654 w/h is worth 3.27km of travel.
Add that going downhill and subtract it going uphill.
If you started with a fully charged pack the difference in distance before you depleted the pack would be 6.54km.
Since a lot of this trip is handled by the ICE the difference will be less.
(I.E. The calculations are only valid for 160M height change when the 50km is traveled in pure electric mode.)

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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by HHL » Tue, 26 Apr 2016, 16:39

Interesting calculation!
You're likely to be a physics man?

Incidentally, the PHEV is a bit over 1800kg, so, probably close to 2t with a fat driver in it   Image

The official energy usage from memory is 134Wh/km, I guess that is on a level road and it does not specify at what speed either.

Last edited by HHL on Tue, 26 Apr 2016, 13:03, edited 1 time in total.

1GR8KA
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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by 1GR8KA » Wed, 27 Apr 2016, 00:44

I checked the altitude today on the nominated run and it was approximately 200 m down to sea level.
However the gradient was mostly over the first third of the journey.
Certainly the downhill part of the 130 km trip does very well using charge and yields excellent results.
However the return journey yields best results using save and only using battery in built up areas.
Very interesting, might take a few years to work it all out !
Or I'll save up, by a Tesla and just gun it .lol
Baz

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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by Ultralights » Tue, 23 Aug 2016, 02:02

I have only had my Outlander for approx 2 months now, and just returned from its first long trip, 500Km each way from Sydney to Thredbo, sea level to 1600 Mtrs altitude. on the journey down, i drove on EV to the M5, hitting the M5 with 80% battery left (i live very close to the M5) and hit the save button and cruise control.
once at Canberra, i exited and headed for the Majura shopping centre just a few km from the freeway, save off, EV mode, until back on the freeway. Save mode again until Cooma,   drove through Cooma on EV, as well as EV only through the 2 small towns on the way at 60Km/h   

Once at Jindabyne, EV mode again until the run up the hill to Thredbo.    Arrived with 60 % in the battery, and 70Km range with fuel left, after a detour up to Dead Horse Gap at 1650 Mtrs altitude.
total fuel economy according to the MMCS at Thredbo   6.7 L/100Km.    from Thredbo to Jindy, EV only, as its a big altitude drop, arrived at Jindy with 5 km EV range.

The return journey.
Refuelled at Jindy, with 5km EV range, hit the charge button for the run home,   again EV driving through the towns, and Cooma. arrived in Canberra with about 70% battery. other side of Canberra, hit the Save button instead and maintained 70% all the way back home to Syd. Once at Campbelltown went back to EV mode only, and arrived home with 6 Km EV range remaining and about 1/4 fuel remaining.

Economy for the return run, 6.9 Ltr/100Km.


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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by offgridQLD » Tue, 30 Aug 2016, 17:15

"The official energy usage from memory is 134Wh/km, I guess that is on a level road and it does not specify at what speed either."

Yes 134whr km when running as a hybrid over a 100km distance so your not including the whr's of petrol your burning.

The actual whr km as a pure ev pr 100km (as in you went on two 50km trips changing between as a pure ev). Would be well over 200whr km.

As a hybrid the energy consumption is 134whr - km from the battery + 1.9lt petrol at roughly 8.7kw pr lt potential. So roughly 16664whrs / 100km = 166whrs km + 134 total 300whrs - km Image

Last edited by offgridQLD on Tue, 30 Aug 2016, 07:17, edited 1 time in total.

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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by HHL » Tue, 30 Aug 2016, 20:01

Hi,

Actually, the 134Wh/km has nothing to do with hybrid mode. It is specified for the EV mode. I do think it is quite optimistic and would be difficult to achieve.
It seems to align somewhat with the official EV range figure, if you assume an usable battery capacity of around 8kWh.


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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 31 Aug 2016, 13:40

Put a random driver in it and ask them to drive and I'm sure it will use 200whr km in EV mode.

I just can not see how a much heaver and less aerodynamic 4wd with much wider tiers would have a listed whr/100km spec slightly less than There Imiev.

One interesting experiment would be to have a Outlander follow a Imiev for 50km ( or 30km or what ever the safe EV only range is of the Outlander)

Both cars start with 100% battery. On return both cars charge back up to 100% from the wall and whrs pulled from the wall plug are recorded.

That would iron out driving style and terrain differences between individual tests. As long as both cars followed behind each other it would be a very fare comparison.
Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 31 Aug 2016, 03:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Fuel efficient tip for driving the Outlander

Post by HHL » Wed, 31 Aug 2016, 16:34

That's seems pretty close. When I drive the battery down to no bars on the meter,
I usually get around 45km in light traffic. To recharge from there takes around 9kWh, so that is actually 200Wh/km........


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