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Gabz
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Post by Gabz » Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 16:43

acmotor wrote:
Don't switch to gas HWS. That isn't helping reduce fossil fuel usage/CO2 production. It is turning a blind eye to the overall energy consumption equation.

+1 gas prices are going to skyrocket if objections to CSG stay in place and we keep on exporting the majority of our gas. Heat pump if you want to reduce electric usage (just no a dux)

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 16:43

"they use at least 50% more energy for the same distance as an iMiEV"

That's something that's often overlooked. Even though a EV will be considerably more efficient than a ICE equivalent. The same efficiency rules regarding the laws of physics aply. If your car is 2 ton and can do 200kmh and 0-60 in 5 seconds Like a model S tesla. It's great performance but at what cost. One can say who cares it's so cheep t run I can have my cake and eat it. Well part of that is true in a way but if your looking at efficiency and low cost transport its a big factor.

My wife asked me a few weeks ago. Would you like a tesla Model S? I said sure but I don't think it would be practical for us. On our 104km trip to the coast each week to our offgrid home Our Imiev consumes around 12kwh up and 10kwh on the way back. If we were in a model S it might be 25kwh up and 20kwh back. So when I go to recharge I need to find 25kwh the next day from solar rather than 12kwh. Sure it can be done but I would need double the PV, double the charger output and double the stress on my system. The Imiev might not be a performance knockout but it gets the job done in about the most efficient way you can without being a silly compromise.

ACmotor, are you sure the leaf would use 50% more than what the imiev would. That doesn't sound correct.I know it would use more but 50% more?

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 05:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by photomac » Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 16:46

Ta for heads up acmotor- that's been factored in now. My average daily commute is 45km The iMiEV is much loved in Western Power. It's simpler dash is more appealing for longer life and reliability over the LEAF. Both good cars.
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Post by Johny » Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 16:47

The Leaf uses around 160 to 170Wh/km. About 30% more. It weighs about 40% more.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 17:00

Ok that sounds about write. The model S uses about 206wh - km.

Kurt
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 20:45

Well it is all user application dependent.
I tested a leaf and on my run it used 18kWh and the imiev used 12kWh.
ok I went faster on the 110 zone but it was a real world comparison that made me think. Not dealer numbers or good user numbers just hard reality.
The leaf is the bigger and better vehicle but like with ICEs you pay for it.
As the leaf price comes down and perhaps as I get more used to bulk kW I may get more prepared for the power numbers.
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 22:54

Another factor that is perhaps weight related is that the energy consumption comparison imiev to leaf is terrain related that is the flat road comparison is somewhat different to the hill terrain performance ?
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Post by jonescg » Fri, 08 Nov 2013, 02:16

In the petrol paradigm, not everyone is content with a Honda Civic - they would rather a Corolla. It's great to have choices though, provided people are aware of the lower Wh/km.

I've encountered a small number of people who looked with horror at their electricity bill ~ two months after acquiring an electric vehicle. I mean, you do know it runs on electricity right? Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 08 Nov 2013, 02:31

For sure,
        Shifting weight uphill or more importantly every time you try and accelerate that weight its a burden on performance. All aspects of performance from handling, braking, acceleration and fuel consumption.Once your trolling along at a fixed speed on a flat road It's all about wind drag and a small amount of friction increase on the road due to weight.

Weight really is the evil Villon.

I was actually quite shocked at how heavy even the I-miev was. Given it has similar interior space and dimensions to my My old 1984 civic that was only 800kg stock I got mine down to 750 ish kg and that model came stock with 100kw motor in Japan. Looking at the Imiev you just wonder were all the weight is? 1080kg! I guess the battery is the big part of it and then all the moden day safety features and gizmo's. It sure isn't the body panels that are contributing to the pork. I think Mitsubishi had there stamping presses set to tissue paper mode when they made the body panels Image

Isn't the Leaf 1520kg

There is no such thing as a light weight car anymore unless you buy something exotic like a lotus.

Kurt
Last edited by offgridQLD on Thu, 07 Nov 2013, 15:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by carnut1100 » Fri, 08 Nov 2013, 05:06

To get a bigger car with genuine five seat capacity you're gonna use more power....

On the slightly off topic Subject of hot water, I can't add more panels or I lose my five years of 1:1 feed in.
I'm planning solar hot water with gas boost.

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Post by photomac » Fri, 08 Nov 2013, 16:52

jonescg wrote: . . . you do know it runs on electricity right? Image



Image Absolutely - too many spreadsheet done to try and dismiss the EV temptation. I've based all costs on 100% renewable too but it will be a "out-of-sight-out-of-mind" reality check. I had contemplated my grandparents power and phone bill technique - the jar of coins!!!!!!
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Post by photomac » Fri, 08 Nov 2013, 16:54

Perhaps I could use an old engine's bore hole instead of a jar? Image mmmm . . . brain-is-a-ticken'
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Hyundai Kona 64 v1.0 ++Sept 2019 onward. ## 00016+
Mitsubishi PHEV v1.0 ++Apr 2016 to Aug 2019 ##14500 to 72000km
Nissan LEAF v1.0 ++Nov 2013 to Apr 2016 ## 00035 to 36000km

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Post by acmotor » Fri, 08 Nov 2013, 21:58

I get it. An 8 litre V12 block for the coins if you have a model s. Image
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Post by offgridQLD » Sat, 09 Nov 2013, 14:32

Or go offgrid and throw away the Jar Image

It all depends on how much you drive it. We on average only drive our car 20km a day or 100km over the 5 weekdays. That only uses 12kwh to charge at 15c kwh off peek.

On the weekend we do another 105km then topped up offgrid (free) then 105km back that uses 12kwh that's topped up at 15c kwh.

So our 310km travel each week or 16,000km PA only costs . 24 x 15c $3.60 a week or $43 a 1/4 not exactly a devastating shock on the bill.

Remember the average Australian only drives 14,000km PA or 270km - week.

Kurt
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Post by g4qber » Mon, 23 Jun 2014, 04:18

http://ozleaf.proboards.com/thread/283/new-ev

typo for LEAF at Magic Nissan.
they would be flying out the door at $31,990.

perhaps someone can get this as a EOFY sale price?


On Carsales.com.au, John Hughes has released the price back to $54k for imiev
but still says $31,990 on their website.

http://www.johnhughes.com.au/new-cars/v ... k/6469535/
Last edited by g4qber on Sun, 22 Jun 2014, 18:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by offgridQLD » Mon, 23 Jun 2014, 04:33

What a mess,
             The pics on that last one show a 2010 or American style dash with eco rather than C mode. Kind of hard trying to flog off a car for over 50k with a 2012 build plate date and on a 2006 chassis.

Kurt
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Post by g4qber » Thu, 14 Aug 2014, 02:00

indeed and just noticed that the specs are for the 2010 imiev
a) LED lights
b) alarm
c) keyless entry

price on this webpage is back to $31,990, but carsales listing is $54k.

a few weeks ago both webpage and carsales listing were in sync
Last edited by g4qber on Wed, 13 Aug 2014, 16:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Troglodyte » Sun, 15 Mar 2015, 16:26

I've had a number of conversations with Leaf salespeople over the past couple of months and every time I was told there are heaps of old stock ones gathering dust in a Melbourne warehouse. Whilst all sales staff to whom I've spoken claim they are 2012 versions, a bit of questioning revealed they were actually built in the UK in 2011, ergo they are now five years old. I wouldn't have any problem purchasing a five year old vehicle providing the price reflected the age of the vehicle ie a bit under half the current RRP however it seems Nissan Australia is still hoping to find sufficient wood-ducks prepared to pay their ridiculous RRP.

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Post by reecho » Sun, 15 Mar 2015, 20:06

No that's not correct.

The Nissan plant in Sunderland started production in March 2013, and only ever produced the 2013 spec cars from the start.

The AU cars came from Oppama in Japan and were built in 2012.

I also gave Nissan AU a pasting on social media recently as they were promoting the EV200 vans. Dicks...!!

I for one would buy a 2013 spec Leaf tomorrow if it came with 6.6kw charge, heat pump, remote charge flap etc.

They really are a good car. Just much maligned locally by Nissan Australia.

Here's another thing. I am good mates with an assistant manager at tone of the dealerships (they aren't Leaf dealers though).

They have a new 370Z in stock. They simply won't sell it....EVER. The demographic where they are eats SUV's and a huge rate. Not sports cars...yet Nissan insists they have it there.

I just hope some manufacturer gets onto the EV bandwagon soon...REAL soon for my sake...


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Post by antiscab » Sun, 15 Mar 2015, 20:27

wait, so they were promoting the EV200 vans without anyone being able to buy them?
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Post by reecho » Sun, 15 Mar 2015, 20:49

Yes........and for a layman it may be confusing.

Nissan isn't the only guilty one here either. Kia Showing the GT Stinger on their latest ads on telly are pretty bad...

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Post by Gabz » Sun, 15 Mar 2015, 21:10

Troglodyte wrote: I've had a number of conversations with Leaf salespeople over the past couple of months and every time I was told there are heaps of old stock ones gathering dust in a Melbourne warehouse. Whilst all sales staff to whom I've spoken claim they are 2012 versions, a bit of questioning revealed they were actually built in the UK in 2011, ergo they are now five years old. I wouldn't have any problem purchasing a five year old vehicle providing the price reflected the age of the vehicle ie a bit under half the current RRP however it seems Nissan Australia is still hoping to find sufficient wood-ducks prepared to pay their ridiculous RRP.


you might be confused with the ex-victorian EV trial vehicles which where not Australian stock but imported from the UK separate.
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Post by acmotor » Mon, 16 Mar 2015, 04:56

So as a matter of interest, what is the best price anyone has been quoted for a Leaf lately ?
It must be hard for Nissan to have any faith in Australia.
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Post by jonescg » Mon, 16 Mar 2015, 05:51

Last I heard you could get an Ex demo 2012 Leaf for $30k. Which is rather steep for a 3 year old plate. That particular vehicle has been sold I think.
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Post by alexeiw123 » Thu, 02 Apr 2015, 18:10

Plenty of LEAFs on carsales in NSW, but list prices of $57k, stating 2014... have they got new models coming in to Australia now, or are they just trying their luck for a sucker? Is it still the story of Nissan moving old stock before the new stock is going to come in?

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