EV Highway Perth to Augusta to where-ever

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g4qber
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Post by g4qber » Wed, 30 Oct 2013, 14:16

Barney Clarkson East Fremantle already has his place available for people who call up.
http://theclarksons.net/Electric_Handma ... ut....html

plugshare
http://www.plugshare.com
via recargo is already doing this
http://www.recargo.com

call Simon Dooley in Manjimup for a charge; his location is on plugshare
http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/15037
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Stellar- ... 6488119220


there is also plugsurfing
http://www.plugsurfing.com
but somehow they've deleted west aus data.
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Post by acmotor » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 02:26

Johny wrote: Wouldn't it be great if we could somehow create a simple but secure system of allowing other AEVA members (hell anyone on the forum) to use each-others charging facilities.
Often it's only 10 or 15km of extra range that is required - or just the knowledge that "there's one 4km out of our way so no problem if it gets tight".

The problem as I see it is security.
No-one wants any car turning up and expecting access nor do they want someone they have never met before or know at all to be on their property un-invited.

It's technically easy but socially not so easy.
So is there a way?

Edit: nor


Perhaps at this stage of EV takeup we can assume any EV owner to be a cut above the general plebs ? Image
I guess the more 'front edge' of property the say 15A outlet was located, the easier.

That does raise the (location)list I'd like so see us make that shows any location that an EVer was able to get a charge and that would be available to another EVer. i.e almost to be considered public e.g. I have restaurants that I have OKed with owner for EVs to charge at their external 10A sockets, the expectation being that you at least buy a coffee.
g4qber has organised charges at caravan parks etc. If these are 'public' (at a cost if applic.) then adding them to a location map would be good. Probably one of the mentioned web sites may already look at this ? but it is not apparent to me yet.
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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 03:15

I was toying with the idea of mounting a ip66 15A industrial style outlet on a post in my front yard of our Brisbane house. We are going to rent that house out soon when we move up the coast full time. I was thinking it would be nice to have a guarantied charge spot close to the city.

Stewing it over in my head I started to think it would have to be written into the lease agreement what its there for and who can use it and then what do I do about the off peek power consumption. Do I offer to take over the off peek portion of the electricity account then that's a another contract. Also the hot water is on the same meter.It can get kind of complex and how often would I use it.

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Post by carnut1100 » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 05:10

Wire in a power meter and work out cosr per kWh....

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 13:09

Yes that would work. You can do it just that it might become a burden on the tenants having to give you access to there power bill for calculations and then have money transferred to them and so on.

It might be possible to have a separate meter that is on a separate account at the one location but if it was I am sure just the fixed cost that they charge keeping that running would out way the benefits of having your own street side charge point for occasional use.

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Post by weber » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 14:44

I expect carnut1100 means that you could have a DIN-rail mounting energy meter wired in the same (or adjacent) IP66 enclosure as the 15A outlet on the post at the front of the property. IP56 or IP55 would do, and you should also have a 16 A RCBO (combined circuit breaker and safety switch) in there, with a 20 A MCB (circuit breaker) back at the main switchboard at the house, so the one on the post trips first.

[Edit: Changed "power meter" to "energy meter"]
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Post by carnut1100 » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 15:14

Yep.
Then you know at the end of the month exactly how many kWh has been used by the charging socket and that makes reimbursing the tenant a piece of cake.

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Post by g4qber » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 15:32

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... r_charging

man hole cover charge points
only 85% efficient at the moment tho'

hmm
magnetic induction
similar to Duracell's Powermat
Last edited by g4qber on Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 04:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 15:33

Yes I fully aware that din rail mounted meters are available and the components for a dedicated 15A circuit. For the small price difference I am a big fan of the industrial sytle IP66 outlets. You can purchase clipsal knock off for about $30 or new old stock genuine clipsal for about the same price. They have a nice strong enclosure to mount to a pole along with a nice positive water tight screw in connection for the plug. The tag out / lockable switch is great as you can place a padlock on it.

What I was getting at is knowing the consumption isn't the issue it's the billing and payment procedure and to try and do it in a way that the tenants didn't have to be involved. As in call/email me when there bill comes in and have me wire money to them. However simple that may seem.

Another issue is the house has 1.5kw of PV on the old 44 cent kwh deal. It would be great is there was a way get a separate billing meter and tie that just into the charge point. I was thinking as soon as I let the tenants take over the electricity bill they might loose that 44c - kwh.

Kurt
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Post by weber » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 15:49

offgridQLD wrote: Yes I fully aware that din rail mounted meters are available and the components for a dedicated 15A circuit.

What I was getting at is knowing the consumption isn't the issue it's the billing and payment procedure and to try and do it in a way that the tenants didn't have to be involved. As in call/email me when there bill comes in and have me wire money to them. However simple that may seem.

Kurt

But if you can read the dedicated meter yourself, next to where you plug in, then the tenants' electricity bill has nothing to do with it. You can look up the present cost per kWh online. The only thing they have to do is (once only) tell you the BSB and account number they want you to pay into.

They can, if they wish, read the meter themselves (say twice: once when they move in, and once when they move out) to check that you are paying sufficient.

But, in reality, how often are you likely to be willing to leave your car there for several hours. What would you do while you were waiting? Surely you can find an existing point you can get permission to use.
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Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 15:55

Yes I guess with a tenant willing to cooperate and have that on his contract it would work out fine.

I agree how often would I use it. To be honest only when I drove to Brisbane from the sunshine coast, perhaps once a fortnight or less.Its a quiet street - shaded parking and I guess ride me bike to the city get errands done and come back to the car. Though a free park in the cbd and a fast charger there would be preferable. (Hmm perhaps I would use a fast charger in the CBD)

Or I could set it up as a more public offering. But then would the tenant want all kinds of cars pulling up out front and charging for hrs.

Like I said it was just a idea but probably not a very good one. Image

Kurt
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Post by Johny » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 16:36

g4qber wrote: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ ... r_charging

man hole cover charge points
only 85% efficient at the moment tho'
This I don't quite get. Yes I understand that it would be convenient.
BUT...
Going through the saga of buying an AC Induction Motor that is now the traction motor in the Vogue, it was in your face ALL the time how the world has moved to > 90% efficiency for AC electric motors. There is a huge effort for only a few percent increase in efficiency.
To then go a blow part that away on more convenient charge mats - nah!
If EVs are our future then look to maximise the charger efficiency. Even resonant wireless transmission doesn't cut it.
All just my opinion of course.

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Post by coulomb » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 18:35

Johny wrote:... the world has moved to > 90% efficiency for AC electric motors. There is a huge effort for only a few percent increase in efficiency.
To then go a blow part that away on more convenient charge mats - nah!

To be fair, much of the emphasis on efficiency is because battery energy is so precious; it costs a lot, and we can't fit as much in there as we'd like to so we don't have to worry about range.

This lack of efficiency wastes mains power - which we can supply from renewable sources at relatively low cost. The efficiency of this system only affects recharge time, not range or vehicle mechanical power, and a small cost to supply the waste power. In freezing climates, the waste power could even be useful, as they might be able to run a tiny little bit less steam through the footpaths due to the heat generated by the chargers. You know, to melt all that snow and ice.
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Post by Gabz » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 18:55

offgridQLD wrote:What I was getting at is knowing the consumption isn't the issue it's the billing and payment procedure and to try and do it in a way that the tenants didn't have to be involved. As in call/email me when there bill comes in and have me wire money to them. However simple that may seem.


yeah it getting complex there you have to have a non standard contract on your lease. you need a energy meter certified to 2% accuracy. the cost of getting a separate electricity account is high it adds service charge. (you might as well find a nice business and co purchase a chargepoint public station for $5k by the time you've done either make up new contracts or putting in power meters and power points. The high cost of chargepoint will look small)

also you need to be careful that you visiting and charging doesn't count as an inspection visit which is limited to 4 per year.

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Post by weber » Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 20:47

coulomb wrote:To be fair, much of the emphasis on efficiency is because battery energy is so precious; it costs a lot, and we can't fit as much in there as we'd like to so we don't have to worry about range.
While this is a valid reason to consider EV motor efficiency more important than charging efficiency, it's not what Johny is referring to. He's referring to MEPS http://www.energyrating.gov.au/products ... tors/meps/ which mandates minimum motor efficiencies with no reference to batteries or EVs. You may remember we had to swear on a stack of bibles that our nominally 22 kW ABB motor would be used in an application with a limited duty cycle (called S2 90 minutes) so ABB would be allowed to import it for us, because its efficiency was a metric insect-excrement lower than MEPS.

I'm with Johnny. Given the choice, I'd always plug in. Tolerating high levels of waste for ridiculous levels of "convenience" is pretty much how we got where we are today, re CO2 and other forms of pollution.
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Post by jonescg » Fri, 01 Nov 2013, 01:54

And here we are struggling to get ONE fast charger in Mandurah, and Tesla has got the entire west coast of the USA covered.

http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger ... aignId=652

Good on them I say.
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Post by Gabz » Fri, 01 Nov 2013, 02:15

I don't approve much of tesla for the same reason I don't approve of apple. standards are good most of the time.

I guess tesla add into the cost of the car the charging infrastructure.

business case to make money on a dc fast charger
$30k loan at 6%p.a. over 10 years $77 per week
service charge averaged on 10 years assume $2 per day $14 per week
so charging each car $9.1 a charge you need 10 per week plus electricity costs.

I can't think of anywhere in Australia that gets 10 visits from electric cars a week let alone many people on the forum willing to pay more than $10 a charge.

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Post by jonescg » Fri, 01 Nov 2013, 02:21

Their chargers are only good for the lifetime of the Model S, so chances are you will see the "free" charge deal start to slip away by 2020, and they begin to switch the charging infrastructure to accommodate Leafs and iMiEVs, and charge accordingly.
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Post by Gabz » Fri, 01 Nov 2013, 02:47

why accommodate when you can charge over $1000 for a chademo adapter

or even $95 for a SAE J1772 adapter
edit:
Don't forget supercharging isn't available on the base model is $2k extra on the next model up
Last edited by Gabz on Thu, 31 Oct 2013, 15:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by photomac » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 04:14

and an experimental alternative . . . http://www.gizmag.com/roadside-power-tr ... ers/29789/
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Post by g4qber » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 05:30

http://www.gizmag.com/solar-powered-ev- ... ver/28791/

this would be a cool solution.

I've already noticed that the emergency telephones are dotted next to the highway.

Perhaps these could also be near these emergency phones?

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Post by Gabz » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 14:34

Trying to finish a list of level 3 chargers in the country. for my dummies guide to level 3 chargers (AEVA members can read a draft in the members only section) :
Victoria
2 Fuji Electric Chargepoint Network
New South Wales
1 Aker Wade Chargepoint Network
6 Schneider Better Place Network
Queensland
0
Northern territory
0
South Australia
1 Adeliade Mitsubisti no details
Western Australia
0
Tasmania
0
Australian Capital Territory
0

anyone have any more they know about ?
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Post by Greg partridge » Mon, 18 Nov 2013, 20:48

NSW
NRMA strathfield

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Post by PlanB » Tue, 19 Nov 2013, 16:41

That Chademo outside the NRMA is a winner, no card required. Back in the 1950s holiday cottages my folks rented over xmas had coin-in-the-slot electricity meters, when the power went off you grabbed a torch & put another shilling in the hungry beast. Maybe parking meters with a chademo plug is the answer?

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Post by Gabz » Tue, 19 Nov 2013, 16:54

The Schneider CHAdeMO units have a credit card or coin/cash options when you order them. currently the major problem which a level 3 charger is the dam expensive cost to run them. the network capacity charge per year is the cost of a chargepoint commercial level 2 ($5k+)

I have the NRMA one it's actually the Aker wade model

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