48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

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gregted
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by gregted » Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 20:31

I can pick up a 48 volt 10kw motor from a forklift for free. The main drive motor is a lot larger but harder to remove.

Is this too small for a ev conversion?

I have a ford courier ute in the paddock I was going to use for a roller but can get a Honda City for about $300 which would be a bit lighter.
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by Johny » Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 20:36

If it helps, a rule-of-thumb is you are looking for a motor that weighs around 80 to 100kg or/and is about 11 to 14 inches diameter.

When you say a 10kW motor but you can get the main traction motor - the traction motor is definitely what you want.

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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by Richo » Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 20:37

Best guage of motor performance would the diameter of the motor.

But it maybe a bit on the small side.
Even at 96V this is 20kW - but that maybe continuous.
So could be 30-60kW peak at 96V.

Hard to tell.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by gregted » Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 20:50

What Kw is suitable for an ev?

The other thing I don't understand is how do I know if I can run the motor at 96 or 144 volts if it is only stated at 48 volts on the plate. And is 48 volts ok to run a vehicle at or will this be too slow or too weak for hills?

There must be a safer way than just putting 96 volts into it and seeing how long it will last.
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by Johny » Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 20:58

gregted wrote:There must be a safer way than just putting 96 volts into it and seeing how long it will last.
You have kind of hit on the DC motors for EV industry's little secret. The reality is that you will not be running the motor at it's maximum kW for very long - usually.

You generally need around 18kW to power a regular car on flat-and-level at 100km/h. Your 10kW motor would probably not cope unless it is physically big enough and has good cooling.

Sorry but it comes back to physical size.

Overvolting a 48V motor to 96V or even 144V is pretty common in DIY EVs and they seem to last OK.

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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by gregted » Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 21:43

Looks like I can't get the main lift motor out of the forklift. It must come out from underneath and I can't get to it. Bugger!!

But the other news is all good on my other complete forklift. The motors all run and the controller is a Curtis 1205-202 worth $1100+ acording to this site.

http://www.bylongind.com.au/curtis_moto ... lers3.html

Along with contactors, guages, wires and charger, this will be the deal of the century.

BTW I may have a 48 volt 3 phase charger for sale soon. Unfortunately, we don't have 3 phase at the house. So I will be interested in swapping it for a 240 volt, single phase.
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by Johny » Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 21:49

The 1205-202 controller will be useful for low to medium speed but can not be fed with much over 48VDC so is unlikely to be a long-term solution for 80-100km/h travel. 48V at 350A is also only 17kW which again is underpowered for a road going normal sized EV.

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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by gregted » Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 22:19

So in your opinion is this forklift worth the trouble to buy, dismantle and resell the parts I don't need to the recyclers and all to be out of pocket for about $300

It looks like I can't use the controller and charger so will just have 3 motors and guages and maybe some wiring. This would still have to be worth the $300, wouldn't it?

If I keep the motor at 48 volts and use the controller, what will I have?

Will my ford courier ute move at even 60kph and drive for 50 kms? This would be usable but 80kph would be better.

Can I use these parts and add more or better batteries to increase the range or speed?

I hope this is not too frustrating for you all. I know what it is like to have so many questions. I just built a 3d printer recently and was amazed at the patience of some people. Now I am helping others to build one as much as I can.

They are a great bit of kit for such a little price. Worth a look if you
like to tinker and manufacture your own plastic parts on your own desktop.

So much I don't know but I'm learning as we go along.

Thanks.

Greg
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by Johny » Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 22:36

gregted wrote: I hope this is not too frustrating for you all.
Definitely not. I can vividly remember asking many, many questions when I first considered building an EV.

It's hard to answer if it's worth your time. If your time is precious then probably not. If you have spare time and this is the way you have chosen to use it, then yes.

It still comes back really to the physical size of the main motor. The fact that it is nominally 48 volts isn't really important. The controller is important as it will blow up with 96 volts on it - but the motor won't - it'll just put out more power and how you cool it will dictate how long it lasts.

Is there any way to get an idea of the motor's size?

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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by gregted » Wed, 18 Jul 2012, 01:17

Small motor out of forklift and is 315mm long, 200 wide and 52 kilos

Plate on side states

Type HO-MRO OUTPUT 10KW
VOLTS 48
PART NO 14310-23401-71
MEIDENSHA CORPORATION

May have larger motor tomorrow.

Greg
Last edited by gregted on Tue, 17 Jul 2012, 15:25, edited 1 time in total.
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by Johny » Wed, 18 Jul 2012, 05:43

Oh oh. The Meidensha motors have come up before. I think they are 3 phase AC. On my phone now. I'll check tomorrow.

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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by gregted » Wed, 18 Jul 2012, 06:58

Above plate stated direct current motor. I hope it will be ok. Haven't tested it yet. Can I just put jumper leads from a 12 volt battery to give it a quick spin. I have read somewhere that the motors shouldn't be run without a load. Is this correct just for a quick spin?
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by Johny » Wed, 18 Jul 2012, 13:38

If there are only 2 terminals then its DC. If there are 3 equal sized connections then its likely AC. Yes a quick tap with 12v would be ok. Don't tap onto terminals as the arc may damage threads.

Sent from phone.

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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by coulomb » Wed, 18 Jul 2012, 13:48

Meidensha make DC as well as DC motors, as well as power generators and pumping systems.

Running a DC motor unloaded on 12 V briefly should not hurt it. Though if it is nominally 48 V, it might be better run at 6 V or 3 V. But you are unlikely to have those lying around.

Maybe first with a headlight (both filaments in parallel) first? It may not be enough current to get it started.

DIYelectricCar has a thread on using forklifts:

Using a forklift motor, and choosing a good one. At over 1600 posts, it's one of the longest threads in history, but you might get some good basics like testing at 12 V from it.
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by gregted » Wed, 18 Jul 2012, 18:04

Motor has 2 terminals so dc but they are stamped A and F. Not + and -
I assume that means armature and field but what terminal is positive or is this a reversible motor?
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by Johny » Wed, 18 Jul 2012, 18:29

Is this the motor that was being controlled by the Curtis 1205?
The reason I ask is that the 1205 is s DC series motor controller which is fine.
Can you get a multimeter (ohmmeter) and find out if the case of the motor acts as a terminal?
It sounds like one of the following - either:
1/ The field-armature connection is internal and A and F are the motor connections.
2/ The case is the "return" and A is Armature and F is field.

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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by gregted » Wed, 18 Jul 2012, 20:07

This motor is connected to the hydraulic pump and there is a MUCH bigger motor just behind the forks that I assume is the main drive motor. It looks to be 12 inches across and 14 - 16 inches long and damn heavy.

The curtic 1205-202 is in another forklift I may buy also but I don't know the type of controller is in this one yet.

The forklift has a side panel under both sides of the seat and the hydraulic motor was under the right side.

There is something behind the left hand panel under the seat with a lot of heavy and light connections going to it but it doesn't look like the curtis I saw when I searched the other day This may be the charger and the curtis may be behind that.

I am going over in 1 hour to try and get the motor out and will post my progress when I get home along with the type of forklift it came from.

This should give us some more information about the controller and motors etc.

Just talked to local motor rebuilders on phone and they think it may be permanent magnet dc motor and may be reversible so I guess I have to bite the bullet and connect some leads and see what happens.
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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by Johny » Wed, 18 Jul 2012, 20:34

Look what I found.
It's from the Meidensha 12.5kW thread.
It lists DC 48V motors.
http://www.meidenkorea.com/PDF/agvmotor.pdf

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48 volt 10 kw motor too small to drive ev?

Post by gregted » Thu, 19 Jul 2012, 00:15

Good work John. Just what I needed.

I didn't get the motor out this afternoon as the whs officer wouldn't leave to let me jack up the forklift so have to wait till his day off.

In the meantime, does anyone have a link to instructions on how to remove the main drive motor from a Toyota fork lift. The model no is 5FW20.

I will have a search myself as well. Videos would be handy.
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