gholm's Morris J2 Van- 1966

Post up a thread for your EV. Progress pics, description and assorted alliteration
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Post by EV2Go » Tue, 16 Nov 2010, 03:47

Is it just me or do other people have this irresistible urge to take to the bottom of that car with the Gerni?

You know it might be worth considering a gearbox swap now before you do the conversion... Here’s my thinking. You have a dodgy speedo that isn’t easily fixed (normally gearbox end) changing the gearbox to something later and more modern could mean less losses than an old style gearbox.

Also would mean you only need one adaptor plate made (saving money). You could do all the things like sorting out the tailshaft etc before the car even goes on the road, because often when people get a vehicle going they are reluctant to take it off the road again.

Food for thought anyway.
Last edited by EV2Go on Mon, 15 Nov 2010, 16:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by a4x4kiwi » Tue, 16 Nov 2010, 04:44

For LEDs you can buy automotive replacements from http://www.virtualvillage.com/led-car-bulbs

They also have a replacement flasher module available to replace the thermo flasher.
Silicon is just sand with attitude.

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Post by a4x4kiwi » Tue, 16 Nov 2010, 04:47

Forgot to mention. For headlights how about using HIDs. they are very efficient.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/50W-HID-Xenon-KI ... 2927wt_905
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Post by Tritium_James » Tue, 16 Nov 2010, 14:45

You'll want to be a bit careful about replacing indicators and brake lights with random LEDs - they won't be ADR compliant re brightness, emission angles, etc and the inspection people will fail you if they spot them.

Having said that, a car this age probably had lousy lighting (lucas - prince of darkness!) and wouldn't meet any modern standards anyway, it might not matter. But still better to not get spotted during inspection...

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Post by Johny » Tue, 16 Nov 2010, 15:10

Just check that they will still pass your vehicle with lights changed to LED. They are a bit sensitive about LED lights down here (Victoria). I'll be swapping mine after approval.
Incidentally you can get a flasher for LED blinkers on eBay. Search for LED indicator flasher

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Post by EV2Go » Tue, 16 Nov 2010, 19:37

Tritium_James wrote: You'll want to be a bit careful about replacing indicators and brake lights with random LEDs - they won't be ADR compliant re brightness, emission angles, etc and the inspection people will fail you if they spot them.

Having said that, a car this age probably had lousy lighting (lucas - prince of darkness!) and wouldn't meet any modern standards anyway, it might not matter. But still better to not get spotted during inspection...
More than likely won't be subject to the relevant ADRs on lighting anyway. We're talking mid 60's when pop up blinker arms were still the go on some Morris. (Remember those stop hands around the same era on trucks?)
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Post by soyachips » Thu, 18 Nov 2010, 05:29

gholm wrote:Should I be concerned about the pack's heat?
I'm not sure. If you're trying to pull a lot of energy out of the batteries in a short amount of time then maybe. I only mentioned it because the batteries will be enclosed in a box trapping the air inside. Adding fans will help but you might need to consider airflow within the box for the fans to be effective.

AFAIK lithium batteries really don't like getting too hot which is why some BMS monitor temperature.

However, my setup is very different to yours so it would be good to get feedback from others who have done similar things.

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Post by gholm » Mon, 22 Nov 2010, 02:16

OK a few more pics.
Installed LED replacements for the front warning lights... brightness is at least equal albeit a colour shift.
Image

A photostitch of the rear diff and drive shaft... after a bit of AEVA forum feedback, I'm moving toward looking at swapping out the drivetrain with something more modern. It's a really simple setup (as most rear wheel drives are) and I'd be keen to get people's ideas for reasonably simple swap-in replacement options. And yeah, this means gear box and clutch as well, although rejigging the gearbox mounts, clutch and gear stick linkages might be a tad pricey at this point. Can anyone point me to any site or forum where I can start to investigate rear wheel drive gearboxes?

Image
Image

I want to keep the orig gearstick and drive pedals to keep the same feel in the cockpit but with a modern gearbox, I might need to rethink that strategy.

Oh and another "want" is to put disk brakes allround. Currently the drums are good and built solid for the possible weight the van could take (+750kg of cargo the van was designed for) but the brake pads are going to get more and more difficult to find. (Not impossible however since I just imported a set of 4 pads (2 wheels worth) for about $90 total. It'll just become harder as years go by..
Oh not to mention that disks will be MUCH safer in wet conditions... as I discovered the other day in one of Sydney's downpours during a drive home, I went through a "puddle" emerging to a slight downhill to a redlight... had to pump the bejeezus out of the brakepedal to clear the water and get some braking... heart starter indeed.

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Post by seligtype3 » Tue, 23 Nov 2010, 20:22

Amazing project. I'll definitely be checking back on this thread. Many similarities to the 69 VW squareback I have on the way in terms of age. Will put some info up soon!
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Post by AMPrentice » Wed, 15 Dec 2010, 20:45

I would definitely be spending the money on my earlier suggestions for safety
and future headaches with sevicing.

RWD Gearboxes Ive tried them all and will suggest the easy to attain BW T5
worldclass gearbox from most post 85 falcons and other cars.
Close ratio sets are the cheapest in the world compared to other boxes if needed.

Differential you should go to Hilux, Hiace or falcon with rear disc brakes and
for front disc brakes have some billet hubs made up and laser cut brake caliper
bracket to suit twin spot volvo, or later falcons and 5 stud toyota/ford 5 x 114.3mm all round.
5 stud toyota and ford are the same so you can use classic steelie wheels
from aftermarket suppliers of hotrods and customs for the period look.

You can get new led indicators now from auto1 with chrome housings that
suit the older english cars like yours and very similar to austin healey
and triumph spitfire ones. Just round with chrome surround.

Falcon diffs or hiace you can get full assemblies from pick-a-part or
you pull it for around $225aud.

angle grind all the brackets off , the width should be similar and then
have someone weld any little thing required on the diff like bracket line
holder or supports etc as the leaf spring supports are a piece of cake.

Front billet hubs to suit later bearings should only cost 300 a pair or
maybe someone can teach you some other conversion using you stock hubs
with just a caliper bracket made using later discs and calipers from
another make that will fit your stock hubs.

Ive done front brakes on an all round drummed car using this method from
other makes by mixing and matching but need laser cut caliper bracket.

Edit: another differential option is the Volvo Dana from a rwd 760/780 etc
super strong and comes with disc brakes. Many other cars also use the
Dana differential and ratios vary from 2.9 to 6:1 in some models.

A booster most likely will be required unless you can get a good enough dual
master cylinder that pumps enough volume will still be better than drums
locking up. In my old 2 tonne ford Galaxy ute with 460cui v8 the pedal was hard
with the disc conversion I did but never locked up when in trouble or emergency.
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Post by gholm » Mon, 10 Jan 2011, 01:19

Yes, the reconfiguration of the drive train has always been at the back of my head.

I'm inclined to continue as planned to mount the Kostov onto the gearbox, keeping the clutch and gear box, and I understand that plan is fraught with future disaster when I next need a gearbox or clutch overhaul/replacement...

Disk brakes allround would be nice but the drums on board are very sturdy having been designed to stop the van loaded at 2400kg gross so I'm actually comfortable about the braking capacity as it stands.

Also nice would be a sturdier, easier-to-find-parts-for gearbox but it is beyond me in technical ability and perhaps even in cost. A new gearbox would require a lot of rejigging of the gear stick linkages and possibly ruin the old look of the cockpit which I'm trying to keep original.

Another alternative is to mount the Kostov as direct drive to a Toyota or Ford diff.
My main problem with a new diff is that the current rear wheel track is 1350mm centre to centre, and most newer rear axles span more than 1450mm. I've read that I'm limited by law to within +/-50mm of the original track, so likely I'd be required to shorten any newer rear axle, which is no doubt prohibitively expensive which defeats the purpose of doing it in the first place.

Another gotcha is Direct drive would place more stress on the controller (Curtis 1231C) which I've been told to baby along as it's prone to blowing up under load. (as Direct drive would be regularly drawing more amps during any usual city acceleration)

I might be drawn more to a direct drive solution if the Curtis had a more reliable reputation at high amp draw but I'm reticent to try my beginners luck.

Meanwhile, I'll be marching around car wrecker yards with tapemeasure to see if any early model Toyota landcruiser or hiace or hilux have a narrow enough track for me to shoehorn in.

Front disks, well, yeah another expense, and worthy of consideration, but definitely something I can do later when I actually discover for myself that it's too expensive to do otherwise. Current brakes are definitely more stopping power than I hope to need at the city-speeds I'm doing.

Anyway, onwards and upwards... my batteries arrive on Monday, so I can begin my battery box. Can't wait to get the Mig welder fired up..


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Post by 7circle » Mon, 10 Jan 2011, 03:14

The older style drum brakes might be quite good for low rolling friction as they may retract along way off the drum surface. Some newer drums have issues of rubbing as they try to stay to close to keep response time fast.

If you want to keep the gear box instead of direct drive you could consider a new Automatic. that is electical control of gear selection.

You want have to worry about linkages just electrical signals to pick the gear. I'm helping with a similar system but it's all wheel drive Subaru Auto Box.

Also old overdrives could be used too.
It would be ace if the over drive was part of the rear diff.

7C

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Post by woody » Mon, 10 Jan 2011, 04:14

You won't need a hilux diff to handle direct drive, as you'll have less torque, not more - the gearbox multiplies torque :-)
Curtis will probably lose its magic smoke with direct drive as the high current/low speed to keep high torque will toast the free-wheel diodes.

Compare the torque of the original motor, and the Kostov @ 500 Amps, there may not be much difference...
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Post by dmulally » Tue, 11 Jan 2011, 15:24

Hi,

First time poster...

I am currently collecting bits for a Hillman Imp EV with a pusher trailer made out of the back of an Imp with an Imp engine in it. (all alloy, weighs 70kgs)

Anyway, nice build log so far and thought I might chime in that I live in Randwick and currently have three live axle's floating around my garage. Of note to yourself I have an escort diff housing and a HR holden one. I would love to pop round and have a look at the bus as I have a soft spot for them.

I could also bring the diff round no worries.

Cheers

Damian

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Post by woody » Tue, 11 Jan 2011, 16:29

Hi Damien + Welcome!,

if you're available tonight, you should come to the Terry Hills thing and say G'day.

I'm not sure the RTA would like a pusher trailer, it doesn't neatly fit into their definition of a trailer (VSB 01) but there isn't anything in that which says you can't register half an imp as a trailer. Driving with the pusher trailer pushing will be a different matter.
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Post by dmulally » Tue, 11 Jan 2011, 18:53

Hi Woody,

What is happening tonight at Terry Hills sorry?

I think pusher trailer was the wrong term. I am not quite sure of the correct terms sorry. Still learning :-) I just need a mobile regen set. Reason being is that I need to have one lot of batteries charging whilst the other is being used on the track at the time.

Nice Cortina. I still have a mint bonnet laying around iirc from a consul which was left over from a locort replica build a few years back.

Cheers

Damo

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Post by woody » Tue, 11 Jan 2011, 20:15

dmulally wrote: Hi Woody,

What is happening tonight at Terry Hills sorry?
Sorry, the info from the Sydney Branch forum
a4x4kiwi wrote: Hi Guys,
Tuesday the Tuesday 11 Jan - Terrey Hills Tavern, there will be food and chat at the Terrey Hills Tavern.

This is a completely social event. There is no agenda, no subject matter, and no structure.
Simply rock up, hang out, eat some food, and chat.
(Warning: Chat subjects may contain non-EV related materials).

Time: 7:00pm.
Location: Terrey Hills Tavern (generally outside in the undercover couch area).

Address: 2 Aumuna road, Terrey Hills NSW 2084
(Just off Mona Vale Road)
There's usually about 10 people there, a few EVs.
dmulally wrote:
I think pusher trailer was the wrong term. I am not quite sure of the correct terms sorry. Still learning :-) I just need a mobile regen set. Reason being is that I need to have one lot of batteries charging whilst the other is being used on the track at the time.
Oh, sorry, I put 1 + 1 together - (back half of an IMP + Imps are RWD) and got 3.

Some Other pushers. I like the idea, but have the same doubts as the RTA about safety.

What sort of track? What sort of EV setup?
dmulally wrote: Nice Cortina. I still have a mint bonnet laying around iirc from a consul which was left over from a locort replica build a few years back.
It will be at Terry Hills tonight - the bonnet needs a respray, but I think it's OK.

cheers,
Woody

PS: We're mildly hijacking gholm's thread here, maybe we should start an impish one...
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Post by T1 Terry » Tue, 11 Jan 2011, 23:05

Hi Gholm,
I've got a BW35 auto here you can have if you are interested in making a direct drive auto by mounting the motor shaft directly to the input shaft and modifying the oil pump system to an electric unit. I'm not that far away, just the otherside of Wollongong. It would be an interesting project in itself, I know my way around inside these transmissions reasonably well so I could assist if needed.

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Post by AMPrentice » Tue, 11 Jan 2011, 23:46

Being different is great but careful and different is safer! :) setting the orignal box up for damage and to machine all the bits to mate it to the motor will be expensive and as you say fraught with possible disaster. You should really sell the curtis unit and go for better Zeva locally made one and great back up service.

Direct Drive will save you money!!!! and headaches. Calculate how much you can save from mating your box to you Emotor and future issues like rebuilds, vibration, clutch, labour and machining costs. Also original gearbox synchros and design is ancient.
gholm wrote:Current brakes are definitely more stopping power than I hope to need at the city-speeds I'm doing.


So if you get a 600amp Zeva unit for direct drive....you have

Opt 1: direct drive DD using original diff (should be strong enough diff
since its made to carry the weight you mentioned) save money, easiest solution.

Opt 2: DD using hilux diff and drum brakes until you can afford
disc brakes all round from other toyota models eg cressida and crown.

If you decide on the Hilux diff the following link will help....
hilux diff info

Hilux 2WD diff from RN10, RN15, RN20 & RN25 models manufactured during the first half of the 70's. Each of these has the spring centres (940mm) and overall width (1350mm).
The ratio and type of the centre that is factory fitted to RN10-25 Hilux may not be suitable or serviceable considering the age. Options are to fit a diff centre from another later model Hilux or Hiace that has a suitable ratio or Limited Slip centre for example. Other options are to fit aftermarket ratios or Limited Slip Differential centres and new bearing and seals.

gholm wrote: Anyway, onwards and upwards... my batteries arrive on Monday, so I can begin my battery box. Can't wait to get the Mig welder fired up..


Also direct drive will allow you great weight distribution. if you used a short tailshaft from a 4wd hilux (has 2 piece tailshaft) then you can mount the motor midway under the car with a full length alloy splash/dust protector plate that can also act as aero ground effects. This way you can put the batteries under the seat and gearbox area and have it all fully protected.

Simple tubular sections underneath can be used to support the motor onto mounts and also be used to support the protector plates.



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Post by AMPrentice » Wed, 12 Jan 2011, 03:31

pic of what Im blabbling about :)Image
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Post by dmulally » Thu, 13 Jan 2011, 13:53

Hi James,

Nice to meet you yesterday.

In regards to direct drive.

I thought more about your situation last night and came up with a thought. The peak torque of the current engine and the kostov are around the same you tell me. But the peak torque of the BMC would be at a certain RPM range. Im guessing 3500-4000. You cant take off in direct drive with the BMC but when you take off you arent at peak torque.

Doesnt the electric motor produce peak torque from the get go? Maybe I need to study up on breakaway torque.

As for rear discs...I am not sure that would be the best idea. I was measuring my clubby one (left the stats at home sorry) and noticed that it is a track only car. Sure its lighter but it has drums at the rear and the bias bar is set to about 70% front. Over braking the rear causes you to spin an awful lot I have found out :-) Perhaps changing the front to discs and using a split master may be the go. You will need to measure bore sizes of caliper pistons and wheel slave cylinders to make sure that you dont have to muck around with two masters on a balance bar.

Cheers

Damo
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Post by gholm » Fri, 21 Jan 2011, 20:07

OK, enough people have commented on Direct Drive, so I've reverted my plan back to very original, and ditch the gearbox and clutch altogether.

This will cause the motor to draw a lot of amps at low speed and I've had quite a few warnings on doing this with a Curtis, so I've ordered a Zeva to use instead. Chatting with Ian, he's driving his MX5 in direct drive with an 11inch netgain and his Zeva controller, and believes it well suited.

So, plan amendments as of today,
1) Van to be direct drive (I need to lengthen the drive shaft somewhat if the motor mounts are to be used)
2) New controller - swapping Curtis for a Zeva (now I will have a Curtis for sale if anyone is interested!)
3) Redesign of the contactor circuit... have ordered another contactor to handle reverse, and will likely build a idiot-proof forward/reverse switch to activate the contactors only when there is no accelerator pedal signal. My foot pedal (a Curtis PB7) has 2 inbuilt microswitches that activate respectively at the bottom and top of the pedal travel. The bottom switch (which is OFF when the pedal is NOT pressed, and switches ON when the pedal is pressed even a little bit) will come in handy for this purpose.
4) Rework of cabin to eliminate the gearstick and clutch pedal ... oh so much more leg room, bliss!
5) Possible introduction of some kind of belt-driven CVT gearbox for the steephill starts I'll likely encounter around the place. This will give the van a faster start at the traffic lights too.
I have some preliminary designs in my head and on my computer, but whether I can design this to withstand the power needed ( max 75kw) is another matter!
Here's the basic idea of belt driven CVT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VYPsrOyIdw
Perhaps I can retrofit one from a Honda Jazz or similar.

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Post by Johny » Fri, 21 Jan 2011, 20:16

gholm wrote:1) Van to be direct drive (I need to lengthen the drive shaft somewhat if the motor mounts are to be used)
I mounted my motor where the transmission used to be, as far back in the tunnel as possible. The drive shaft only had to be 220mm longer and that was taken up with the sliding spline. In my case it was so I could get as much weight up front (battery packs) as possible - but it made drive shaft implications less serious. Just a thought.

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Post by gholm » Fri, 21 Jan 2011, 21:14

Here's some preliminary renders of my initial designs. Belt probably won't take the full power, so a fatter one will be needed. The green parts move linearly as shown by the arrows.

Food for thought anyway... the actuation of the green sliding mechanism would be by linear servo and determined by motor amps. The high the amps, the more the green gears would slide towards a lower gearing.
Image
Situations of high amp draw on motor would trigger this motion of the green gears, effectively doubling the torque on the tailshaft.

Image
This would be the resting position of the motor at under 200amps. This resting position is shown as additively geared, but I'd likely keep this at 1:1

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Post by gholm » Sun, 06 Mar 2011, 20:10

Time for a bit of an update.

I've at the stage where I've built the battery box, had preliminary approval from the engineer, and have now mounted it into the van, put the rear seat on top, and installed all the batteries and BMS.

Here's some photos showing that process.

Image
In the welding shed, here's all the batteries lined up and spaced with 6mm plywood, which I'll use inside the box.

Image
About finished on the box structure, about 4 hrs cutting and welding. Had about another hour to go to get the seat support verticals on. (tricky because they need to match the seat exactly!)

Image
Sideways shot of finished box with seat verticals in place, and a nice triple coating of Coldgalv zinc, drying outside.

Image
Inside of van, the floor is corrugated, so to make sure the weight load is even distributed, I bought some rubber matting from Clark rubber, cut it into strips and laid it down where the box will be.

Image
Same shot but a few hours later, after sanding and coldGalving the van's floor underneath the rubber strips. Box is ready to install.

Image
To tie the box to the chassis rails, I made 8 of these. It is 50mm x 8mm steel cut to approx 150mm lengths and drilled according to which chassis rail they'll wrap around. Each of the "bolts" are M8 threaded rod which will run through the van floor and into the box rails.
Total 16 x M8 at 20kg each (rule of thumb) = 320kg capacity
Battery box =40kg, Seat 15kg, batteries=250kgs = 305kg = 15kgs to spare before I'd need to put in more M8s.

Image
Box finally in and batteries loaded. Plenty of sweat and drilling, but thankfully no unnecessary penetrations in van.
All penetrations treat heavily with Col16 xdGalv, with a thick Penetrol coating.
Batteries then loaded, and wired up.. Still waiting on power cable to finalise it, but all BMS seem to be working (greenlights on!). Once powercable arrives, I'll crimp up the connecting cables to create the full 144v pack, and set off the first charge.

Image
The side view of the van with door open. Seat it tilted forward to allow access to batteries.

Image
The seat midway through folding.

Image
The seat locked in place.

Image
This is the seat latching mechanism... And the reason why the box needed to be exact. The verticals need to line up on both ends of the box, and then I needed to grind/dremel out the U shape bit to suit the seat. The seat locks onto a high tensile M6 bolt and mercifully, it worked first time. I'll admit it was very satisfying to hear that latch click at both ends. Ain't it great when theory finally meets practise?

Thats' it for now.

Next on agenda... populate the components tray (controller, contactors, DC-DC convertor, fuse etc), then it'll be time to rip out the ICE.



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