Electric Vehicle Subsidy

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Rob M
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Electric Vehicle Subsidy

Post by Rob M » Tue, 21 Apr 2009, 04:10


moemoke
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Electric Vehicle Subsidy

Post by moemoke » Tue, 21 Apr 2009, 04:25

Even Old Blighty is forward thinking while Australia's heading backwards.
How cool would it be to have a Transport Minister named 'Geoff Hoon' Image
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Post by Thalass » Fri, 24 Apr 2009, 02:30

In the USA they get a $7500 rebate for buying an EV - at least that's what Tesla say in their pricing. That'd be nice for conversions!
I'll drive an electric vehicle one day.

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Post by Taffy » Fri, 24 Apr 2009, 03:54

$7.5K and we would all be buying lithiums!

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Post by Thalass » Fri, 24 Apr 2009, 03:57

Which is why australia needs its own manufacturing industry - all that money would be going straight to china! :P
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Post by drowe67 » Sun, 17 May 2009, 15:03

I recently took my state MPs for a drive in my EV:

http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=94

I asked one simple thing - pls extend the $2,000 LPG conversion rebate to EVs. There is also a one pager I wrote (downloadable from the blog post above) that explains why EVs are good for the sorts of problems they are trying to solve.

Anyway I just figure it might be a good idea if we all ask our MPs for some sort of rebate (or low rego fees) for zero emission vehicles. It's small $ in the context of Australia's budget, but could help kick start an EV industry here.

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Post by coulomb » Sun, 17 May 2009, 15:10

Thalass wrote: Which is why Australia needs its own manufacturing industry - all that money would be going straight to China! :P

Ben from A Better Place mentioned that Australia has significant deposits of lithium, and that they were supportive of a lithium battery industry in Australia.

Certainly if their project takes off, they would be a major purchaser of lithium batteries.

Edit: According to this page, Australia is already producing more lithium than China, and is currently the second or third (depending where the USA is) largest producer in the world.

Oh, and the deposits are (guess where?) in Western Australia.
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Electric Vehicle Subsidy

Post by Mr. Mik » Sun, 17 May 2009, 16:04

drowe67 wrote: I recently took my state MPs for a drive in my EV:

http://www.rowetel.com/blog/?p=94

Regarding the Electric Car Submission you mention at the above link:

You might want to add in some references to the health benefits as well:
Health benefits:

Quote:

“Does an electric vehicle fleet hold the key to urban transport?

However, conventional petrol or diesel engine cars have been reported to be the main sources of urban air pollution in major Australian cities - pollutants such as carbon monoxide, oxides of nitrogen, sulphur dioxide, particles (up to 50 microns) and lead - as well as being considerable contributors to greenhouse gas emissions.
The most effective way of reducing pollutants is through use of electric vehicles (EVs), which are approximately 97 per cent cleaner than petrol-powered cars.”
By Professor Alek Samarin, ( a private consultant and adviser in the development and implementation of the concepts of sustainable development. From 1980 to 1994 he was Director of Research at Boral Ltd and Professorial Fellow at the University of Wollongong, and was then was appointed Adjunct Professor with the Faculty of Science, University of Technology, Sydney (UTS). He is currently with the Centre for Built Infrastructure Research, Faculty of Engineering, at UTS.) Monday, 21 January 2008 Science Alert Australia and New Zealand http://www.sciencealert.com.au/opinions ... 807-2.html

First published in the December 2007 edition of The Australian Academy of Technological Sciences and Engineering (ATSE). http://www.atse.org.au/index.php?sectionid=1110

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The following was published by the Australian Government Department of Health and Ageing in collaboration with the National Asthma Council:

Quote:

“Health effects of outdoor air pollution

While concentrations of individual outdoor air pollutants are generally low in Australian cities, the combined effect of the pollutants is complex and the health impacts are not restricted to the respiratory system.
The following table lists pollutants with known health effects on people with asthma.
Airborne particles: (Combustion of fossil fuel and organic matter, tobacco smoke and exhaust fumes)
Known health effects:
Respiratory tract irritation and infection, allergies
Bronchitis, eye irritation
Exacerbation of respiratory and cardiopulmonary diseases
Asthma requiring hospital admission
Lung cancer

Sulphur dioxide : (from Fossil fuel combustion)
Known health effects:
Respiratory tract irritation, bronchitis, bronchoconstriction
Provocation of asthmatic episodes
Exacerbation of cardiopulmonary diseases

Nitrogen oxides: (Biomass and fossil fuel combustion, tobacco smoke and exhaust fumes)
Known health effects:
Eye irritation
Respiratory tract infection (especially in children)
Exacerbation of asthma, irritation of bronchi
Asthma requiring hospital admission

Ozone: (Secondary pollutant - traffic, hydrocarbon release, fossil fuel combustion)
Known health effects:
Eye and respiratory tract irritation
Reduced exercise capacity
Exacerbation of asthma
Asthma requiring hospital admission
Some of the scientific evidence for these health effects includes:

A recent European study found that hospital admissions for asthma increase by 1 per cent for every 10 micrograms per cubic metre increase in particles with diameters less than 10 micrometres (known as PM10).,
· Associations between particles, ozone, nitrogen dioxide and asthma hospital admissions have been confirmed in Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne.2,3,4, ,
· A recent study in Darwin demonstrated an association between modest levels of PM10 from bushfires and emergency attendances for asthma.,
· Effects of particles on symptoms and lung function have not been confirmed in cohorts of children with asthma.,
· However, other studies involving cohorts of children with asthma have shown clear effects of nitrogen oxides and ozone., With more sensitive techniques health effects of ozone are observed at ever-lower concentrations.8,9,10,
· Prior exposure to ozone or nitrogen dioxide increases the response to allergens in people with allergic asthma.11,12,
· Long-term effects of air pollution appear to be related more to bronchitis, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) and lung cancer,13, than to asthma.

Authors:
A/Prof Michael Abramson, Monash University; Dr Stephen Brown, CSIRO; Dr Shyamali Dharmage, The University Of Melbourne; A/Prof Nicholas Glasgow, The University Of Sydney; Peter Holder, Community Pharmacist, ACT; Peter Lewis, Consumer Representative, VIC; Dr James Markos, Launceston General Hospital; Prof Rod Simpson, University Of The Sunshine Coast
http://www.nationalasthma.org.au/html/m ... s/4003.asp

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Here is part of an article published in The Medical Journal of Australia:

Quote:

“ Air pollution and its health impacts: the changing panorama
Abstract: Urban air pollution levels are associated with increased mortality and cardiorespiratory morbidity.
These health effects occur even at exposure levels below those stipulated in current air-quality guidelines, and it is unclear whether a safe threshold exists.
Air pollution in Australia and New Zealand comes primarily from motor vehicle emissions, electricity generation from fossil fuels, heavy industry, and home heating using wood and coal. In individual patients a direct link between symptoms and air pollution exposure may be difficult to establish and may not change their clinical management. However, avoiding exposure during periods of peak pollution may be beneficial.
Although there is some evidence that urban air pollution in Australia and New Zealand has been decreasing (through reduced car use, improved emission-control technology and use of more energy-efficient devices in the household and in industry), pollution levels are still unsatisfactory. Further reductions may prevent hundreds of cardiorespiratory hospital admissions and deaths each year.”

Tord E Kjellstrom, Anne Neller and Rod W Simpson MJA 2002 177 (11/12): 604-608
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/177 ... 81_fm.html

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The following is from the Environment Protection Authority Victoria:

Quote:

“Effects of air pollution on mortality - Melbourne Mortality Study
This report presents the results of an epidemiological study conducted by EPA and its partners into the effects of air pollution on daily mortality in Melbourne. The statistical analysis, conducted by the researchers at the School of Public Health, Griffith University, utilises state of the art statistical methods to identify the impacts of ambient air pollution on daily mortality. The results of the study show that current levels of air pollution in Melbourne are associated with increases in daily mortality and are consistent with studies conducted elsewhere in Australia and overseas.”
http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/air/health/mo ... _study.asp

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This was part of a successful business case which led to the installation of 6 power outlets for EV charging at an Australian Government Organisation. More details here: http://visforvoltage.org/forum/2911-arg ... ment-15880


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Post by drowe67 » Sun, 17 May 2009, 16:13

That's a really good point Mik. I think that too often we take for granted the emissions of ICE vehicles in our every day life.

These days most of my driving is electric, so I have adapted to cars with no smell. The other day when I backed out the ICE I found I was shocked at the smell (and felt a little ill). Also as I only visit a petrol station every few months, I was nearly bowled over by the smell of petrol vapors. Poison smells that as an ICE driver I never noticed before.....

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Post by juk » Sun, 17 May 2009, 19:32

"
Ben from A Better Place mentioned that Australia has significant deposits of lithium, and that they were supportive of a lithium battery industry in Australia.

Certainly if their project takes off, they would be a major purchaser of lithium batteries.

Edit: According to this page, Australia is already producing more lithium than China, and is currently the second or third (depending where the USA is) largest producer in the world.

Oh, and the deposits are (guess where?) in Western Australia."

That's all well and good, but the lithium in WA is in the mineral spodumene. It takes significant amounts of energy to convert this to lithium carbonate and is therefore not done. The spodumene is used in glass and ceramics as is. Galaxy (GXY) is considering the conversion of their spodumene into LiCO3, but guess where? On the East coast of China. GXY aren't currently in production, and currently the only producer is Talisman a canadian company which took over the mineral assets of Sons of Gwalia and produces Spodumene from Greenbushes.


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Post by Squiggles » Sun, 17 May 2009, 20:27

Australia also has large deposits of thorium. Thorium is a potential source of relatively safe nuclear reactor fuel. Is there any real research into this in Australia....NO.

Governments will not seriously support such research, nor will they take any serious interest in electric vehicles. In both cases there is likely to be enormous negative effect on the business of some of the worlds major corporations, the same corporations that provide significant "support" to the political machinery.

Secondly, particularly in the case of Electric Vehicles the large scale adoption of this technology would have a disastrous effect on the Australian economy. Have a think about the number of jobs that would be threatened by a large reduction in the use of petrol/diesel/oil, huge, seriously, huge. If that means nothing to you consider the amount of excise and tax that the various governments would not collect, currently we have several state governments that would be bankrupt if they where private companies, do you seriously believe any of these governments are going to support a movement that is going to deplete one of their most lucrative sources of income. Not on your Nellie, it won't happen, sure there will be a lot of lip service and photo opportunities but there is no way they are going to help.
It has already been demonstrated with the case of Bio-diesel, immediately it was shown to be a viable part of the fuel equation governments moved to add excise to the sale of bio-diesel. Effectively this allows the control of production and ensures they do not miss out on their dollars.
For governments to support the electric vehicle they will have to be shown how they are going to get their $0.06 per kilometer guarantee, if we have to pay $0.06 per kilometer on top of any other conversion and running costs are EVs still viable.

For my part I am determined to continue down the path of an EV conversion, only because it is an interesting challenge and I believe it is good for the environment. I am not for one moment foolish enough to believe it will get true political support.

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Post by Thalass » Mon, 18 May 2009, 05:48

Even if every private car, taxi, and the like was replaced with an EV equivalent there would still be many diesel vehicles around. (and a few petrol ones, too)

Trucks that drive thousands of kilometres (Rail would not be able to replace them immediately), ships, aircraft. Every mass transport system except rail will require some serious scifi level power supplies to convert to electric propulsion.

So it won't be an overnight thing. In some cases I suspect fossil fuels will be used for decades after private vehicles are pure electric. Even bio-fuels will need similar infrastructure to the existing fossil fuel network, so even then the people will remain employed and the businesses will still be profitable.

If they can't adapt in 50 years, then they should be allowed to go bankrupt.
I'll drive an electric vehicle one day.

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