new ev build (proposed)

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85turbo
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by 85turbo »

Hi all.

i have done loads of research, and am about to "jump off the deep end"
so to speak, with the build of my second EV (the first being a converted mountain bike)

i would love to be able to meet, and talk to any sydney EV owners or builders to get some idea of what im up against....

i plan on a modest conversion. not looking for land speed records, or crazy range.
i need a comfortable cruising speed of 80kph with power in reserve for hills, and a minimum range of 60km (to 80% DOD)

i would drive no more than about 150km per week on average.
my work place is just under 20km away, and i dont use the car every day.

the proposed car would be a micro hatch. 2 seater 2 doors.
and planned voltage is 96V with 225 AH of Floodies (Trojan T105's)

i can do most of the build myself, and have a budget of about 7k not including the car or batteries.

is there anyone around the Sydney area that might want to give advice / info ?

thanks in advance,
Jason.
Last edited by 85turbo on Thu, 26 Feb 2009, 23:13, edited 1 time in total.

Mark T
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by Mark T »

Hi Jason
What area of Sydney do you live in?
There are plenty of EVs to look at and owners willing to talk about their experiences.
We should be having our usual informal meeting at Terrey Hills Tavern next Tuesday evening.
Hope to see you there.
Mark

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woody
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by woody »

The Terry Hills thing is first Tuesday of odd months. There should be an EV there (Kearon?)
There is also the formal AEVA meeting on the first Tuesday of even months @ Kellyville which has lots more people (20-50) and EVs (3-10).

cheers,
Woody
Planned EV: '63 Cortina using AC and LiFePO4 Battery Pack

85turbo
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by 85turbo »

im in merrylands west.

but my working hours will prevent any meetings on week nights....
i don't get home till about 11pm....

so im restricted to weekends only im afraid.

Jason.

Mark T
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by Mark T »

I live in Greystanes, right next door Image
My EV is nearly finished.
I'll PM you with details.

85turbo
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by 85turbo »

sweet !

cant wait.....
i plan to start my conversion in about 6 weeks.
i have to sell my current ICE car first.....

Jason.

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new ev build (proposed)

Post by Striker »

I live in Parramatta, not far from you and Mark.

I don't have an EV, unfortunately, but I will be at the food and chat at Terrey Hills this coming Tuesday, and at the Branch meetings.

--Striker.
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85turbo
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by 85turbo »

i would love to be able to attend the meetings, but as i work afternoon shift (2.30 - 10.30pm) i just cant get to them.

if there is ever a weekend meeting, i will attend for sure.
as for the EV itself, i still have not decided on what exact car to convert.....still weighing up the pros and cons of the various voltage combinations.

do i go 96V (for a lighter weight vehicle) or run 120V or 144V for a more efficient one ?

these any many other questions will need answering before i spend any money.....

Jason.

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EV2Go
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by EV2Go »

considering your somewhat limited budget, I would suggest light as possible and low voltage to keep the cost down.

85turbo
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Post by 85turbo »

thanks.

that's why i initially considered a 96v system.
but my research and experience from the mountain bike build (24V 500W) the advantages of a higher volt system can not be ignored.

ill need far less AH in a 144v setup, than in a 96v setup to get my desired speed and range.

i am now leaning more towards a swift or charade conversion at 144V.
in any case, ill have to make up my mind very soon, as i plan to buy the donor car in about 5 weeks.

i got offered a possible candidate yesterday.
a 1992 swift sedan with about 3 weeks rego on it, for $300
body wise, its not too bad, but the interior is a little rough....

Jason.

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Post by EV2Go »

A 144v Swift with the right motor would be a reasonable choice. When choosing a donor car look for one with minimal frontal area, low co-efficency drag and low weight (EV Calculators are good for working out the gains). If you can reduce as much as possible the power required to move the car, you can get away with less (cheaper) power.

85turbo
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Post by 85turbo »

would i be better off with the sedan, or a hatch ?
personally, i like the shape of the hatch ones better.

the swift at 144V is turning out to be the way im heading at the moment.
using the guide over at diyelectriccar, i figured that for my intended range, i will need about 144AH of lead acid, to give me the 60km (to 80% DOD) that i need.

most daily trips would be no more than about 45km.

i still have lots of research to do, on choosing a motor / controller combo though.... most likely an Advanced DC motor. maybe an 8" ?
the 6.7" might be a little on the small side ?

thanks again.

Jason.

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EV2Go
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Post by EV2Go »

I was under the impression that you only got 50% DOD on SLA...

IMO I think the 8" is a much safer choice.

Don't think there would be a huge difference between the two.
Last edited by EV2Go on Sun, 01 Mar 2009, 13:25, edited 1 time in total.

85turbo
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Post by 85turbo »

yes, the calculator over at diyelectric car takes into account the peukerts factor, thats why i need such a large AH traction pack to get the range.

they say to do the following to size a LA pack.

take expected Watt hrs per km and multiply it by the range that you need, divide this by pack voltage. then multiply that by 1.25 for DOD, then divide that by .65 for peukerts. that should give a pack that will do the required range.

in my example, i think i figured on 180wh/km (might be optimistic ?)

so the calculation is as follows...

180wh/km X 60km = 10,800watts / 144V = 75A X 1.25DOD = 93.75A / .65 peukerts = a total need AH of 144.23 for 60km at 144V assuming 180wh/km efficiency.

so basically, i need a minimum usable 10.8kw pack.
the 144V 144AH pack should have a total of 20.7kw, so i guess in effect it is about 50% ?

am i far off the make here ?


Jason.
Last edited by 85turbo on Sun, 01 Mar 2009, 13:41, edited 1 time in total.

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EV2Go
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by EV2Go »

Calculating battery capacity is something I will need to leave to one of the more electrically savy guys as I am struggling to get my head around it as well.

antiscab
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by antiscab »

Hi Jason,

your in the ball park.
you might find 145AH(20hr rate) to be a bit obscure among the true and tried battery packs.
if you go for AGM, a battery in that size isnt hard to come by.

things ive learnt from reading the EVDL:
avoid gel batteries, make sure its AGM (gel batteries dont like to be discharged quickly).
if the datasheet gives a capacity at the 1C rate, or 2C rate, use that to work out capacity, rather than the 0.05C (C/20) rate.
if using floodeds, stay under 1C at all times (so a T-105, dont draw more than 250A ever).
and try and stay under 0.5C continuous.

Matt
Matt
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2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

85turbo
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new ev build (proposed)

Post by 85turbo »

antiscab,

so the crown floodies i was just looking at are probably not going to cut it for me ? http://www.energymatters.com.au/crown-1 ... p-686.html

can you recommend a good battery for my needs ?

Jason.

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new ev build (proposed)

Post by antiscab »

Hi Jason,

IMO, no, i wouldnt use those.
its a floor sweeper battery. its not really designed for high current draw.
if going for flooded, look for golf cart batteries.
these have reserve capacity rated at 75A, and are of better construction.
golf cart batteries are almost exclusively 6v
Trojan T-105 (or equivalent) comes to mind.
flooded lead acid aren't particularly energy dense, so you will need a big pack for decent service life.

not alot of us here (that i know of, feel free to prove me wrong) have alot of experience with flooded lead acid.
all i know has been gleaned from the knowledgeable folks on the EVDL.
i would suggest looking through the archives, or joining and asking for a recommendation.

Matt
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2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

85turbo
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Post by 85turbo »

space and weight is an issue (as always with an ev build) there's no way ill have room for 24 trojan 6 volt batteries ! or the GVM for them either......

im stuck with 12V batteries.....
ill keep researching the subject.
i'm a way off buying the batteries for this build....

still have not actually bought a car to convert.
that should happen in about 4 weeks or so.....

Jason.

85turbo
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Post by 85turbo »

i think these might be suitable batteries, given that they are sold as deep cycle, and have a 57 mins reserve at 75A.

battery

i know that they are still flooded lead acid, but i think that's about all my budget will allow.

if im reading the specs rightly, these should hold up to a continuous 75A load for 57 mins ?

if that's the case, they should cope well with my intended design (i think) as it seems that similar builds (at 120V) are drawing about 80A at 100kph, my 144V system at say only 80 kmh should draw less ?

they will hopefully give me my required maximum of about 60km at 70kmh...

im open to any suggestions on traction packs, my budget for a 144V system and charger for a 60km range is about $5k. i dont think LiPo is sufficiently well developed yet (the BMS side of things anyway)...

so LiPo or LiFe are probably out of the equation for me at this stage.
maybe in a few years when im ready to replace the first traction pack, the technology might have matured enough.....

Jason.
Last edited by 85turbo on Tue, 03 Mar 2009, 22:13, edited 1 time in total.

antiscab
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Post by antiscab »

yes that battery should probably be fine.
just stay below 200A at all times, and try not to draw more than 80A continuous.

whether or not it would last a few years im less sure about, but if you keep them balanced, use about half of your 60km range most of the time and keep currents low, they should do more than a year.

i would suggest talking to a engineer about upgrading your suspension and brakes so you can add more weight if going for flooded lead acid.

Matt
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2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

85turbo
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Post by 85turbo »

ok....

revised the build plans a little....

chosen "victim"

Suzuki swift 3cyl 1989-2004 (yet to be purchased)
203-06-4001 8" motor at 120V
Curtis 1231C controller.

still undecided on exactly what batteries to use....
ill leave that for a little later in the build.

will probably fork out the extra for AGM's.
ill need a minimum of 60km (to 80% DOD) so i guess that's a big factor in the build.

ill get the bulk of the motor / controller and other stuff done before i "run out of money" i have an initial build budget of about 8k not inc the car or batteries.

doing as much of the work myself as is physically possible.....
i am really looking forward to starting this build.....

Jason.

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Post by woody »

Where are you located in Sydney? The EV fairies who helped Kearon finish his Capri will probably be dying to help already.
Planned EV: '63 Cortina using AC and LiFePO4 Battery Pack

85turbo
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Post by 85turbo »

any and all help will be greatly appreciated !

im at Merrylands west. near the cuberland hwy.
as soon as i sell my current ICE car, ill have the capital to get started.

Jason.

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Post by Mark T »

Hey Jason

Hope you enjoyed the ride in my EV.
Can't wait to get it registered.

Mark

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