Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Technical discussion on converting internal combustion to electric
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Kasterborus
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Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by Kasterborus » Sun, 26 May 2019, 06:56

So I was having a look through the NCOP 13, NCOP 14 etc and I came to the realisation that it may actually be easier to just build a skateboard.

Now to this end, I gave Transport and Main Roads QLD a call and they actually agreed with me!

He said taking a Body on Chassis car with old crappy brakes, old crappy suspension, building a new chassis , fitting modern brakes and modern suspension and the like to is a great idea, plus the lowering of the batteries to the chassis and making the COG lower is also a great upside.

He said for this, I just need sections LH and LV of NCOP, which is easy.

However, he was unable to direct me to any chassis construction guide, he said that LH and LV are what needs to go on the certificate/mod plate, but otherwise, he's unable to give me further guidance.

So, with that in mind, can anyone here give me further guidance?

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by wovenrovings » Sun, 26 May 2019, 19:34

That is really interesting. Wasn't aware that putting a new chassis under a car wouldn't render it an ICV. I would have thought that the resultant vehicle would then have to meet current crashworthiness standards. Anyway this isn't answering your question. Maybe the idea is that you show it meets strength requirements and those twisting tests they do to ICVs.?

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by blwnhr » Mon, 27 May 2019, 08:34

Did you ask this same question on FB last week?
Regardless I'll post the conversation here for the benefit of all.
So after some reading through all the stuff on NCOP, QCOP, etc it looks to me that an easier way to do a conversion would be to potentially:

1) Pick a Body on Chassis donor
2) Replace the entire chassis with a custom fabricated skateboard

But, then you're replacing a chassis, and this is where the water gets muddy...how does one go about getting that engineered versus a "messier" standard conversion where you keep the original chassis?
blwnhr wrote:As the chassis has been changed it becomes an ICV (individually constructed vehicle). Pretty sure these are the right guidelines: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehic ... _ncop.aspx
Yeah I had a look, but there were a few things in there about utilising a body from a vehicle that I'm sure would exclude it as an ICV, as the body was designed to be standardised under an ADR and was manufactured for mass market, it excludes it.
Not sure if that's more aimed at Monocoque bodies being used in ICV construction or what though.
blwnhr wrote:I'm coming at this from my background as a hot rodder. We have our own guidelines (google ASRF guidelines if interested), but have experience with ICV and rebodied vehicles.
A 1950's pickup on a HQ Holden chassis (a previously common conversion) is registered as a rebodied HQ Holden. As such all ADR rules that applied to the HQ (think lights, emissions etc.) apply to the rebodied vehicle.
If you make your own chassis and put a body on it then it becomes an ICV. This is because the strength and structure of the vehicle is untested and unproven.
yeah that was my thought process as well, might look back into it, as I was originally told the street rod framework didn't apply as it was pre-1950 bodies.
I was considering 1970/1980 bodies
blwnhr wrote:ASRF covers 1948 and older full-chassis vehicles. I only used that as context.
The rebodied and ICV rules are what apply to your proposal. You should contact an engineer in your state to confirm.
So, now to your question above:
Kasterborus wrote:
Sun, 26 May 2019, 06:56
So, with that in mind, can anyone here give me further guidance?
This page will be the beginning of the information you need, but as per the FB conversation, the person you need to speak to is a certifying transport engineer (aka an "approved Person" from the QLD transport page). There should be a list of them somewhere on the QLD gov transport page, but I couldn't find it. A quick Google found this crowd, they may be able to answer some questions

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by Kasterborus » Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 07:28

blwnhr wrote:
Mon, 27 May 2019, 08:34
Did you ask this same question on FB last week?
Regardless I'll post the conversation here for the benefit of all.
So after some reading through all the stuff on NCOP, QCOP, etc it looks to me that an easier way to do a conversion would be to potentially:

1) Pick a Body on Chassis donor
2) Replace the entire chassis with a custom fabricated skateboard

But, then you're replacing a chassis, and this is where the water gets muddy...how does one go about getting that engineered versus a "messier" standard conversion where you keep the original chassis?
blwnhr wrote:As the chassis has been changed it becomes an ICV (individually constructed vehicle). Pretty sure these are the right guidelines: https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/vehic ... _ncop.aspx
Yeah I had a look, but there were a few things in there about utilising a body from a vehicle that I'm sure would exclude it as an ICV, as the body was designed to be standardised under an ADR and was manufactured for mass market, it excludes it.
Not sure if that's more aimed at Monocoque bodies being used in ICV construction or what though.
blwnhr wrote:I'm coming at this from my background as a hot rodder. We have our own guidelines (google ASRF guidelines if interested), but have experience with ICV and rebodied vehicles.
A 1950's pickup on a HQ Holden chassis (a previously common conversion) is registered as a rebodied HQ Holden. As such all ADR rules that applied to the HQ (think lights, emissions etc.) apply to the rebodied vehicle.
If you make your own chassis and put a body on it then it becomes an ICV. This is because the strength and structure of the vehicle is untested and unproven.
yeah that was my thought process as well, might look back into it, as I was originally told the street rod framework didn't apply as it was pre-1950 bodies.
I was considering 1970/1980 bodies
blwnhr wrote:ASRF covers 1948 and older full-chassis vehicles. I only used that as context.
The rebodied and ICV rules are what apply to your proposal. You should contact an engineer in your state to confirm.
So, now to your question above:
Kasterborus wrote:
Sun, 26 May 2019, 06:56
So, with that in mind, can anyone here give me further guidance?
This page will be the beginning of the information you need, but as per the FB conversation, the person you need to speak to is a certifying transport engineer (aka an "approved Person" from the QLD transport page). There should be a list of them somewhere on the QLD gov transport page, but I couldn't find it. A quick Google found this crowd, they may be able to answer some questions
Yes actually I did, and a few people PM'd me telling me that this forum was the best place to have this discussion instead of Facebook, as the wealth of information here was higher and that the people here would be more experienced at it.

I did have a good browse through, but couldn't really find anything related to what I was asking.

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by blwnhr » Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 12:59

You need to find a transport engineer as ultimately they will be providing the engineers report for you to present to get rego.

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by Kasterborus » Fri, 07 Jun 2019, 10:06

blwnhr wrote:
Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 12:59
You need to find a transport engineer as ultimately they will be providing the engineers report for you to present to get rego.
Yeah I've now spoken to 7 and most of them have straight up said "mate, I have no idea to be honest"

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by blwnhr » Sat, 08 Jun 2019, 17:48

Wow. You must be finding the F-grade engineers. I'll see if I can get details of preferred guys in QLD. Brisbane?

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by Kasterborus » Sun, 09 Jun 2019, 07:02

blwnhr wrote:
Sat, 08 Jun 2019, 17:48
Wow. You must be finding the F-grade engineers. I'll see if I can get details of preferred guys in QLD. Brisbane?
That'd be great.

I'm not sure if it's a case of the laws really don't allow for it in enough writings to make it black and white, or the engineers are tossing it in the too hard basket.

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by blwnhr » Mon, 10 Jun 2019, 16:07

It is black and white, you just haven't found the right people to talk to. I understand you've gone to the right people, but they are clearly clueless (or to be fair to the, under-trained).

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by Kasterborus » Mon, 10 Jun 2019, 16:23

blwnhr wrote:
Mon, 10 Jun 2019, 16:07
It is black and white, you just haven't found the right people to talk to. I understand you've gone to the right people, but they are clearly clueless (or to be fair to the, under-trained).
Potentially yes, clueless engineers.

Though I can't imagine what I'm asking is common

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by blwnhr » Mon, 10 Jun 2019, 17:14

It may not be common, but the rules and legislation already exist to accommodate it. I know this as a fact.

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by Kasterborus » Mon, 10 Jun 2019, 19:15

blwnhr wrote:
Mon, 10 Jun 2019, 17:14
It may not be common, but the rules and legislation already exist to accommodate it. I know this as a fact.
So where exactly should I be looking please :)

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by blwnhr » Wed, 12 Jun 2019, 05:08

Where are you located? I had Brisbane in my head for some reason.

If so Doctor Tim comes highly recommended and is experienced with all sorts of vehicles. Perhaps ring, make a time to see him and offer to pay for that time. They will show commitment from your side and guarantee his attention.
https://www.facebook.com/Dr-Tims-Auto-E ... 837773900/

When Googling him I found this which isn't a bad read for anyone.

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by Kasterborus » Wed, 12 Jun 2019, 05:26

blwnhr wrote:
Wed, 12 Jun 2019, 05:08
Where are you located? I had Brisbane in my head for some reason.

If so Doctor Tim comes highly recommended and is experienced with all sorts of vehicles. Perhaps ring, make a time to see him and offer to pay for that time. They will show commitment from your side and guarantee his attention.
https://www.facebook.com/Dr-Tims-Auto-E ... 837773900/

When Googling him I found this which isn't a bad read for anyone.
Sweet, thanks for that mate :)

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Re: Building a new Chassis/Skateboard

Post by jonescg » Thu, 19 Sep 2019, 13:25

Interesting thread I only just discovered - I have contemplated cutting the floor out of my CRX and stacking a ladder frame worth of batteries in there. I have my doubts as to whether I can fit much in there since it's already so low to the ground...
AEVA National Secretary, WA branch chair.

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