Whats a battery life span

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Richo
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Whats a battery life span

Post by Richo » Wed, 10 Jun 2015, 20:48

Today I saw an article where they claimed the battery lasts 10 years.
Not becuase they have one 10 years old that they used every day and still works.
But because they cycled it 3650 times! Image

It has been quite a number of years now since Lithium batteries came on the scene.
So my questions is has anyone got any evidence of how long a pack will last?

I'm not talking about how many cycles before it's unusable.
I'm talking about cells that don't work anymore because they are OLD.

So what I'm expecting is an answer where such and such knows a guy who has had an ev for 10 years and still running on the same lithium pack where they have done over 2500 cycles...
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Whats a battery life span

Post by Rusdy » Wed, 10 Jun 2015, 21:58

Yeah, I'be been pondering this myself, but to no avail. I guess it is that new!

The closest I've got is this: http://www.battcon.com/PapersFinal2012/ ... %20app.pdf

That is the largest Lithium battery for stationary purpose (at that time), installed in 2006.
Last edited by Rusdy on Wed, 10 Jun 2015, 12:00, edited 1 time in total.

mikedufty
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Whats a battery life span

Post by mikedufty » Thu, 11 Jun 2015, 06:47

I'm pretty sure someone mentioned in a comment on a reneweconomy article today, a lithium battery powered car which was going OK at 9 years. Can't remember which article though.

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offgridQLD
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Whats a battery life span

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 11 Jun 2015, 14:17

It's a interesting subject. Like you say a lot of data is just projected from cycle testing or extrapolated out from short term calender life results.

Early 2008 I purchased a few boxes of Headway 10ah lifepo4 cylindrical cells from china. That would make them 7 1/2 years old. Some of them would have close to 2000 cycles others less but harder cycles. They haven't been treated very well. No real consideration to storage ambient temps or storage charge levels.

Last time I cycled a few of them was about a month ago. Cycling them on my charger/discharger showed just under 10Ah - 9800mah from memory at about 0.3c discharge.

So for now I have some confidence to say good lifepo4 cells should be serviceable for 10 years calender life if treated reasonably well.

Kurt

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Richo
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Whats a battery life span

Post by Richo » Thu, 11 Jun 2015, 20:55

Even if there were a few age related failures in a pack after 6-8 years that still goes well with a probability distribution curve.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
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Richo
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Whats a battery life span

Post by Richo » Thu, 11 Jun 2015, 21:03

Claimed oldest Winston (TS) cell from 2007.
http://gwl-power.tumblr.com/post/105388 ... photo-of-a
Seems the owner think he might get 30-40 years out of them from a capacity/cycle life point of view not age deterioration as I want to know.
https://forums.energymatters.com.au/int ... c6005.html
But 8 years and going strong is pretty good - even if it's not in an ev!
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!

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Richo
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Whats a battery life span

Post by Richo » Thu, 11 Jun 2015, 21:05

http://www.engadget.com/2015/03/23/lith ... cale-view/
Once again this is the deterioration from cycle use not age.
So the short answer is NO but the long answer is YES.
Help prevent road rage - get outta my way!

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offgridQLD
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Whats a battery life span

Post by offgridQLD » Wed, 24 Jun 2015, 15:49

When you think about it the 2010 Imiev's will be 6 Years old by the end of this year. I don't see why the they wouldn't still be functioning in 4 years time (with some capacity reduction) 4 years isn't a long time so we will soon find out.

I work on 10 years of serviceable life predictions on both my Ev and house batterys. If they do better than that It's a bonus.

My EV doesn't get one cycle per day more like 4 cycles pr week though two of the cycles are 80% DOD cycles and the other two are less than 50% DOD. My house batterys get one cycle pr day but isn't only a 15% DOD cycle on average and a max of 50% DOD rarely.

It will be real important data. Particularly in building confidence with the people using battery life as an excuse to hold back on getting into a new EV.

Kurt


Last edited by offgridQLD on Wed, 24 Jun 2015, 05:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Whats a battery life span

Post by 7circle » Thu, 25 Jun 2015, 06:20

What type of batteries should I buy for conversion?

$5k maybe less


For plugin hybrid conversion.

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offgridQLD
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Whats a battery life span

Post by offgridQLD » Thu, 25 Jun 2015, 14:16

My vote would go to OEM ev cells, Leaf, Tesla. Lifepo4 is heavy, bulky and not nessaseraly inexpensive compared to salvaged OEM cells.

Kurt

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Whats a battery life span

Post by Barry Murfett » Thu, 25 Jun 2015, 16:26

My EV is now 6 years old and I calculated 1,200 cycles. I've had a few batteries completely fail and I've replaced them. The bank, as a whole, appears to have the similar capacity to new but cannot provide the same current so the car doesn't accelerate as quickly and the top speed has dropped.
They are 38 off 160ah Thunder Sky batteries.

Barry Murfett

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Whats a battery life span

Post by antiscab » Fri, 26 Jun 2015, 06:05

I have a similar experience to Barry

I have 42 x TS 60Ah cells, with 2010 manufacture dates

power has dropped off (really feel it when it's cold, not so measurable when warm)

Cells have done ~900 equivalent cycles (100km range, done 90'000km)

I don't go past 45Ah due to some 2008 dated cells that have fallen to that capacity, in the pack
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
1998 prius - needs Batt
1999 Prius - needs batt
2000 prius - has 200 x headway 38120 cells

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offgridQLD
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Whats a battery life span

Post by offgridQLD » Fri, 26 Jun 2015, 13:01

So from the two above examples of lifepo4 in EV applications. Your looking at about 6-7 years and 1000 - 1200 cycles befor some of the earlier Chinese lifepo4 cells have high internal resistance (saggier voltage) and about 80% of original capacity?

Kurt

Last edited by offgridQLD on Fri, 26 Jun 2015, 03:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Whats a battery life span

Post by Johny » Mon, 20 Jul 2015, 20:43

(Bumped from: here)

If you can't predict what your distance will be on a given day before leaving home, then a PHEV would be a logical choice (unless you just go diesel).

If you KNOW what distance you will be doing before leaving for the day, then get the next cheap iMiev that comes up and keep the Camry for the long distance days.

If you can't arrange parking out of the sun for either PHEV or BEV then electric age will be accelerated up there - worth considering.

LEAF owners have put together some extensive data on Nissan LEAF battery degradation. Worth looking at if that's your concern. You'll have to come up with some environmental similarities of a listed US city with Darwin.
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/?tit ... acity_Loss
Last edited by Johny on Mon, 20 Jul 2015, 10:44, edited 1 time in total.

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