Making home EV ready

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DaveG
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Making home EV ready

Post by DaveG » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 09:55

We've just bought a Hyundai Kona EV... and very excited! We're about to get an external power point put on the side of the house for charging overnight. That's all fine.
However, the AEVA fact sheet on the Kona says "Switchboard and/or electrical supply upgrades may be needed if your home is more than 20 years old. (See fact-sheet on ‘Making your home EV ready’)". That fact sheet doesn't seem to exist online! We'll get an electrician to install the power point at home...but what about when we travel and use somebody else's power point in their house etc? Is there anything we can easily check to make sure it's safe to use it? Eg is it OK if it has a cut-out switch but not otherwise?

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by antiscab » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 09:58

Get a 10A or even an 8A portable evse for travelling. Then you can plug into any 10A powerpoint safely.
Matt
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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by DaveG » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 10:14

Thanks for your prompt reply.
So ignore things like this..."However, it’s worth noting that while a normal household socket can perfectly power up your electrical vehicle, a survey has to be carried out by a competent electrician first to ensure the existing wiring can handle the additional electrical draw."?
The Kona comes with an evse with standard 10A plug so presuamably that will do. I also have a long heavy duty extension cord which I though I'd take away with us just in case...what are your thoughts on using this with the evse?

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by antiscab » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 12:21

It'll charge slow but otherwise be fine. If there's too many other things on the same circuit the worst that will happen is you trip a breaker or blow a fuse in your meter box
Matt
2017 Renault zoe - 25'000km
2007 vectrix - 156'000km
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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by brendon_m » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 12:21

If you are really paranoid about random power points you can get one of those inline rcd /circuit breakers from bunnings, Jay car etc. Then if you plug a 10a evse in and the place burns down it means it wasn't up to scratch anyway.
Running off a random 10a socket can lead to tripping of breakers when the kettle is put on etc and long term may burn out plugs/sockets so it's fine for the occasional use at friends and in public but use the dedicated one at your house for best results.

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by smithy2167 » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 12:58

I think the concern over a 10A charge rate is a bit over the top. After all, we've had 2400W (= 10A) radiators almost since electricity was invented :D . House circuits are designed to handle that sort of load.

Having said that, instead of installing a 10A power point, you might want to investigate a proper EVSE that will take full advantage of the Kona's 7kW onboard charger. We have a Zappi EVSE that will charge at 30A / 7kW and, if you have a solar PV system, can be configured to only use solar energy for charging. Cost around $2K including installation.

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by jonescg » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 20:36

If nothing else, a permanently installed EVSE makes plugging in even easier - get out, plug in, walk off. No faffing around with sockets and leads.
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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by reecho » Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 20:37

antiscab wrote:
Mon, 30 Sep 2019, 09:58
Get a 10A or even an 8A portable evse for travelling. Then you can plug into any 10A powerpoint safely.
The EVSE supplied with the Kona and Ioniq are 6/8/10A adjustable via press button on the back...

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by EVdownUnder » Thu, 03 Oct 2019, 19:27

I drive about 100km average per day and decided not to purchase any charger for home.
I use the 6/8/10A charging cable that comes with the Kona to a standard plug in my carport.
My reasoning, a 7kW charger, installed by an approved electrician will set you up very close to $2000.
That is more than 2 years of driving electricity at about 20k/year and 25ct/kWh !
Or for me, after discovering that the Kona can charge from many public chargers including the very common Tesla destination chargers, probably closer to 5 years of driving electricity !!!
Kind of defeats the purpose of buying a car with a cheaper fuel if you ask me.
The very valide reason to buy a charger like the Zappi is to benefit from its ability to monitor the source of the electricity and prioritise renewable if available.
Cheers,
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 14 Nov 2019 (70 days of ownership)
7948km at an average speed of 48.5km/h
129Wh/km from new
Total charging cost so far (the rare times I charge at home): $41.78

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by jonescg » Thu, 03 Oct 2019, 20:45

Bingo.

The car is already expensive, so paying an extra $2k on top of it seems stupid, especially when the unit probably won't function like it should in 12 years time.
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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by Bryce » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 13:18

Hi there - the EVSE will work fine for 12 years and beyond. It's just an automatic power point really. I installed my 7kW one 5 years ago, and it is no different to the same model offered for sale now by that company. How the 'dumb' ones work will never change. It's the 'smart' ones that might change/improve over the next couple of years. You might not end up with the highest level of functionality the later smart ones in a couple of years time will do, but it will still work.

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by EVdownUnder » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 19:38

What I am excitedly awaiting is the wide spread of V2G. This will be a small revolution in the way to use electricity. Most of us on this forum have lots of available kWh in our garages. It makes complete sense to use this at night and charge during the day when the sun is shinning. Completely ideal for retired people who's car might be plugged in more often than the 9 to 5 worker.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Nissan Leaf is the only car ready for it.
Does anyone know if it is legal/possible to use this feature in Australia yet?
Patrick
Ceramic blue Kona Highlander - Current stats:
As of 14 Nov 2019 (70 days of ownership)
7948km at an average speed of 48.5km/h
129Wh/km from new
Total charging cost so far (the rare times I charge at home): $41.78

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by brendon_m » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 19:53

You could use pretty much any car that has chademo as it's bi directional. Technically that means you could use an imiev or first gen leaf although that's probably pushing the limits of their small batteries, you'd probably want a battery pack with a few more spare kwh.
As far as I'm aware there aren't any inverters /chargers available that take advantage of chademo and if there are I doubt it's certified for Australian use.

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by antiscab » Sat, 05 Oct 2019, 10:34

The Zoe power stage is capable to back feeding to the grid (at up to 22kw).
additional communication would be needed between car and evse, and a firmware upgrade for the zoe.
Matt
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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by Chuq » Sat, 05 Oct 2019, 19:10

When we got our first EV, most of the work was cleaning out the double garage so we could at least fit one car in it. A couple of months after getting the car we had a dedicated 15A power point installed. We've had the car for 3 1/2 years and only now are we actually planning a dedicated EVSE (in our case, a Zappi) on a 7 kW circuit.

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by brendon_m » Sat, 05 Oct 2019, 19:45

On that note my daily driver (which does 80km per day but only 40km is charged at home) is just plugged into a bog standard 10a outlet. Through a power board and timer switch with a cheap Arlec extension cord no less.
My wife's car get the luxury of the 15a outlet I had installed for running a welder.
They are both set to charge between 11pm and 5 am (my "cheap" power time) and they are always both fully charged ready to go every morning.
At this point in time I can't justify installing anything more powerful, Except for maybe a 2nd 15a outlet

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by T1 Terry » Fri, 11 Oct 2019, 10:15

Does anyone know what voltage the Kona battery pack is? I've been seriously thinking about a solar array wired to meet the voltage of my chosen EV so I can direct charge the EV battery. If the voltage is less than 450vdc then I can also use the EV's battery to power the inverter to run the house at night.

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by T1 Terry » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 08:30

I found it after a few Google searches, 356v ... I'm guessing that is nominal so what is the nominal voltage of each cell? Non of the standard nom battery voltages divide evenly into 356v so maybe that is end of charge voltage? 86 x 4.135v = just short of 356vdc.
The voltage is well within the solar input limit for the MG model inverters and 10 x 270w Tindo panels in series gives an open circuit voltage of 385vdc and 312vdc Vmp (STC) so by the time the battery is fully charged the current would be next to nothing because the panels would be over the 25*C that the open circuit voltage is measured at and the spec sheet shows at 50*C the zero current voltage is roughly 34vdc or 340vdc for the 10 panel string. The last bit could be topped up via the 240vac trickle charger powered by the solar/inverter but a switch would be required at the solar to battery charging line to stop a feed back from the battery to the solar intake once the battery voltage exceeded the solar voltage. It would need a 13.5kW solar array though, so that cost is still substantial.

With that secondary use in mind, the price of a house battery bank equal to the 64 kWh @ 48v nom. could be deducted from the purchase price, a bit over half the purchase price. Starting to make it look like a reasonably cheap brand new EV with a long range battery pack that can be fast charged .... and double as a house battery that can be solar charged.

Now I just need someone to tell me I've got the numbers wrong :lol:

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by jonescg » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 08:59

Terry - I think the Kona is either 96 or 98 cells in series - when fully charged it hits 400-407 V DC.
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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by T1 Terry » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 10:40

jonescg wrote:
Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 08:59
Terry - I think the Kona is either 96 or 98 cells in series - when fully charged it hits 400-407 V DC.
So the 356v divided by 98 cells in series puts the nominal voltage at 3.63v per cell and 98 cells @ 4.2v = 411v. So the 407v is with the cells just below the 4.2v mark, but the 3.63v nom is a strange figure, wouldn't it be normally 3.7v nom?

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by brendon_m » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 11:00

My guess
Its a 64kwh pack so
96 cells x 3.7v is 355.2 round up to 356v
355.2v x 180ah = 63936wh rounded to 64kWh
Or 356v x 180ah = 64090Wh

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by T1 Terry » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 12:06

So, 96 x 4.2v = 403.2v, so stop at 400vdc would keep the cells just under the 4.2v mark. So the series string needs 12 panels now for an STC open circuit voltage of 462vdc and an operating temp open circuit voltage of around 408v @ 50*C. The bugger now is the 462vdc open circuit with cold panels is more than the MG inverter's max voltage of 450vdc. 11 panels would only produce 375v open circuit @ 50*C. Not quite so simple now, buggerit ....

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by reecho » Tue, 15 Oct 2019, 18:18

Kona is 98S not 96

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by T1 Terry » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 08:59

So, back to the strange nom cell voltage thing. Can you confirm the end of charge battery voltage please Richard? My back of the envelope I'm doing my calculations on is getting rather hard to read now I've made so many changes :lol:

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Re: Making home EV ready

Post by tonyw » Wed, 16 Oct 2019, 13:17

It worries me that a solar inverter might be fed with 400 V from a car's propulsion battery.

Most of the high-voltage solar inverters use a single-phase full-wave bridge inverter, with the battery connected to the top and bottom of the bridge and the single-phase mains connected across the middle. That means that the solar panels (or the car's battery in this case) is flying up and down at mains voltage.

Is the car's insulation rated to withstand this? Would the car's chassis have to be earthed for safety? Does a ChaDeMo connector contain a safety earth pole?
cheers

tony


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